(Rematch) The Hulk (MCU) VS Thor (MCU)

Originally posted by Silent Master
The only reason the Hulk wasn't killing when effected by Loki is because Thor stopped him. or did you forget the part where the Hulk was trying to kill Black Widow?

From the beginning Banner was trying to fight Lokis influence, you saw that in the transformation when he was trying to resist it. At first he went after Widow but when he caught up to her he didn't attack her straight away, there seemed to be some hesitation on his part. IMO it was left open ended what would've happened, I think Banner was fighting it but I can see why you think that.

He certainly wasn't as angry/berserk as the Hulkbuster fight that much we do know.

The only reason that the Black Widow is still alive is because Thor stopped him.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Hulk could have landed 2 hits or 10 it's irrelevant but you're only strengthening my point. According to you Hulk only used 2 more attacks on Thor yet he was struggling to even stand. Hulk was throwing him around pretty much at his leisure because Thor offered no resistance, a stark contrast to the beginning of the fight when it was competitive. If Hulk had started punching him into the ground at that point then based on what we saw, Thor had no defence. He was saved by the jet while Hulk was growing more and more dominant implying he was getting stronger too.

If that's what you choose to believe then go ahead but that isn't what the film portrayed. Anyone claiming Hulk was as angry as he was fighting Thor as he was fighting Tony clearly doesn't possess basic observation skills or is biased. Banner even states afterwards that "the world saw the real Hulk for the first time." Scarlett Witch unleashed all of the heroes greatest fears, and that has always been Banners greatest fear; Hulk going berserk with rage, mindless and unstoppable with Banner unable to rein him in.

When Loki manipulated the Hulk he wasn't killing random civilians, even the fighter jet pilot was thrown away from the explosion. Hulk could've quite easily killed him if that was his true intention, and if that wasn't enough, when he fell he made sure to land in a building with no one inside. You're comparing 2 different scenes and leaving out the context.

He didn't? Then why does he clearly shrink here and return to his normal form?
youtube.com/watch?v=5KxmsLkUOdQ watch from 3:30.

You also still didn't answer my q, how is Bana Hulk > MCU Hulk?

Thor was struggling to stand? I don't recall any seen where Thor struggled to stand excpet when he was sucker punched by Hulk. No one is contesting that Hulk is stronger than Thor in fisticuffs or in a wrestling match.

But you have to consider that Thor took the best Hulk could dish out and pretty much left the fight unscathed (ok, well maybe a bloody nose). On the other hand, Thor only used a portion of his power on Hulk. He hit Hulk ONCE with mjolnir and Hulk struggled to get back up after that. And that wasn't even a charged strike. Thor didn't fly, didn't use lightning, didn't use charged hammer strikes, didn't use tornadoes... he matched Hulk at Hulk's strongest game and still made it competitive.

So are you saying Hulk had no intention of harming Black Widow when he was chasing her through the Hellicarrier?

As for Bana Hulk and MCU Hulk: Bana Hulk was able to catch a missile and was running fast enough to keep up with a chopper IIRC. He was also clearly shown to get stronger the madder he gets. SOmething that MCU hulk hasn't been shown to do.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Thor was struggling to stand? I don't recall any seen where Thor struggled to stand excpet when he was sucker punched by Hulk. No one is contesting that Hulk is stronger than Thor in fisticuffs or in a wrestling match.

But you have to consider that Thor took the best Hulk could dish out and pretty much left the fight unscathed (ok, well maybe a bloody nose). On the other hand, Thor only used a portion of his power on Hulk. He hit Hulk ONCE with mjolnir and Hulk struggled to get back up after that. And that wasn't even a charged strike. Thor didn't fly, didn't use lightning, didn't use charged hammer strikes, didn't use tornadoes... he matched Hulk at Hulk's strongest game and still made it competitive.

So are you saying Hulk had no intention of harming Black Widow when he was chasing her through the Hellicarrier?

As for Bana Hulk and MCU Hulk: Bana Hulk was able to catch a missile and was running fast enough to keep up with a chopper IIRC. He was also clearly shown to get stronger the madder he gets. SOmething that MCU hulk hasn't been shown to do.

Best Hulk can dish out are you kidding? He punched Thor once. Hulk took Thor's Mjolnir strike better than Thor handled his punch. Hulk was knocked on his ass and had his cage rattled but he recovered almost straight away and wasn't bloodied either. Agree with you that Thor was restricted with Mjolnir I don't think anyone would deny that, but for what it was, might vs might with no exotic powers, Hulk showed he is > Thor.

I'm saying Banner was trying to resist the Loki influence (he was this was shown) and that it was left ambiguous as to what would've happened next. IIRC I saw an interview with JW and he rebuts the notion that Hulk was definitely going to kill Natasha but I'd have to find it.
He did have opportunities to kill Widow though and didn't. Even when he approached her, he had an open palm as if he was threatening to pimp slap her. If he really was the berserk, murderous Hulk you say he was, then why did he hesitate? Or why didn't he just punch her into paste instead of slapping her around?

Bana Hulk had better speed feats yes that's true, but that is it. MCU Hulk surpasses him pretty much in every other area. Hulk was amping when he saw Betty in danger, when he overpowered Abomination and we saw him depowering when he calmed down in AOU. Facts.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The only reason that the Black Widow is still alive is because Thor stopped him.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Iyo. What about the other instances? Did Thor stop those too?

The movie itself presented the scene as Thor saving Black Widow.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Yes, when Hulk was slamming Thor around he was picking him up off the floor, he couldn't recover quick enough to defend himself.

Best Hulk can dish out are you kidding? He punched Thor once. Hulk took Thor's Mjolnir strike better than Thor handled his punch. Hulk was knocked on his ass and had his cage rattled but he recovered almost straight away and wasn't bloodied either. Agree with you that Thor was restricted with Mjolnir I don't think anyone would deny that, but for what it was, might vs might with no exotic powers, Hulk showed he is > Thor.

I'm saying Banner was trying to resist the Loki influence (he was this was shown) and that it was left ambiguous as to what would've happened next. IIRC I saw an interview with JW and he rebuts the notion that Hulk was definitely going to kill Natasha but I'd have to find it.
He did have opportunities to kill Widow though and didn't. Even when he approached her, he had an open palm as if he was threatening to pimp slap her. If he really was the berserk, murderous Hulk you say he was, then why did he hesitate? Or why didn't he just punch her into paste instead of slapping her around?

Bana Hulk had better speed feats yes that's true, but that is it. MCU Hulk surpasses him pretty much in every other area. Hulk was amping when he saw Betty in danger, when he overpowered Abomination and we saw him depowering when he calmed down in AOU. Facts.

If what you say is true and that Thor was completely helpless when Hulk was throwing him around, then Hulk was free to give Thor his best shots and yet Thor walked away without any injury. So for your statement to be true, that Hulk was completely dominating Thor at the end of that fight, you'd have to assume that Hulk was hitting Thor with everything he's got.

So which will it be? Was he dominating Thor or not?

Hulk slammed Thor twice. TWICE. It's very presumptous of you to think that Thor was unable to retaliate after only getting slammed twice. Are you telling me that any fighter who gets hit twice is automatically assumed that he can't defend himself?

In any case, no one is saying Thor can beat Hulk in pure h2h. What we're debating here is that Thor will beat Hulk in an all out fight.

Banner was trying to resist Loki's influence, but there was nothing in the movie to show Hulk was resisting Loki's influence.

Hulk chasing Black Widow is an enraged Hulk who was lashing out at anyone in his way. He wasn't a cold blooded murderer who was clinically assessing what best move to do to instantaneously kill his prey. He was pissed off and he lashed out with the first attack he had, which was a backhand against Romanov. That proves that he was out of control.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Hulk is stronger, more durable/better soak and seems to be impervious to pain when in rage mode (relentless).

Thor is quicker/more skilled, has equal/better damage showings and is more versatile.

IF Thor fights like an idiot (melee, little use of other powers/lightning) he loses.

IF Thor fights smart (like he did in his first movie) he wins.

Averaged out, more than not, Thor would win in an open area. Hulk would win in a smaller space. As it is, in this scenario, Thor would win.

That's my take of it, anyway.

Agreed on every single point.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Hulk is stronger, more durable/better soak and seems to be impervious to pain when in rage mode (relentless).

Thor is quicker/more skilled, has equal/better damage showings and is more versatile.

IF Thor fights like an idiot (melee, little use of other powers/lightning) he loses.

IF Thor fights smart (like he did in his first movie) he wins.

Averaged out, more than not, Thor would win in an open area. Hulk would win in a smaller space. As it is, in this scenario, Thor would win.

That's my take of it, anyway.

As a few others have already stated, this is a pretty good assessment of how the two compare, and would do in combat against each other.

I agree with most of it, except I'd say that it's pretty clear that Thor's damage output is greater than Hulk's.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If what you say is true and that Thor was completely helpless when Hulk was throwing him around, then Hulk was free to give Thor his best shots and yet Thor walked away without any injury. So for your statement to be true, that Hulk was completely dominating Thor at the end of that fight, you'd have to assume that Hulk was hitting Thor with everything he's got.

So which will it be? Was he dominating Thor or not?

Hulk slammed Thor twice. TWICE. It's very presumptous of you to think that Thor was unable to retaliate after only getting slammed twice. Are you telling me that any fighter who gets hit twice is automatically assumed that he can't defend himself?

In any case, no one is saying Thor can beat Hulk in pure h2h. What we're debating here is that Thor will beat Hulk in an all out fight.

Banner was trying to resist Loki's influence, but there was nothing in the movie to show Hulk was resisting Loki's influence.

Hulk chasing Black Widow is an enraged Hulk who was lashing out at anyone in his way. He wasn't a cold blooded murderer who was clinically assessing what best move to do to instantaneously kill his prey. He was pissed off and he lashed out with the first attack he had, which was a backhand against Romanov. That proves that he was out of control.

I have no issue with anyone thinking Thor wins an all out fight, that was never the point of contention for me. As others have pointed out, Nibedicus broke down the fight pretty nicely without the added fanboy bs and I can see why some people think Thor wins an all out fight.

Come on dude you're being obtuse, we all know Banner mentality and behaviour directly influences his Hulk form.

Meh, I think we mostly agree on this point. Hulk did lash out on Widow but he only lashed out on her, everyone else was in retaliation to being attacked. I only disagree that A) this was Hulk at his angriest -- it clearly wasn't. His forced transformation meant Banner had less control than normal but he (Hulk) clearly had some morality still within him unlike AOU rampage. B) That Hulk would've killed BW, I don't think him raising his hand meant he would've killed her but I get that the scene was portrayed to look like she was in danger.

Still pissed Thor was underpowered in AOU and the MCU as a whole. They don't want to show their precious Tony up.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Yes, when Hulk was slamming Thor around he was picking him up off the floor, he couldn't recover quick enough to defend himself.

Best Hulk can dish out are you kidding? He punched Thor once. Hulk took Thor's Mjolnir strike better than Thor handled his punch. Hulk was knocked on his ass and had his cage rattled but he recovered almost straight away and wasn't bloodied either. Agree with you that Thor was restricted with Mjolnir I don't think anyone would deny that, but for what it was, might vs might with no exotic powers, Hulk showed he is > Thor.

I'm saying Banner was trying to resist the Loki influence (he was this was shown) and that it was left ambiguous as to what would've happened next. IIRC I saw an interview with JW and he rebuts the notion that Hulk was definitely going to kill Natasha but I'd have to find it.
He did have opportunities to kill Widow though and didn't. Even when he approached her, he had an open palm as if he was threatening to pimp slap her. If he really was the berserk, murderous Hulk you say he was, then why did he hesitate? Or why didn't he just punch her into paste instead of slapping her around?

Bana Hulk had better speed feats yes that's true, but that is it. MCU Hulk surpasses him pretty much in every other area. Hulk was amping when he saw Betty in danger, when he overpowered Abomination and we saw him depowering when he calmed down in AOU. Facts.

👆

Originally posted by FrothByte
If what you say is true and that Thor was completely helpless when Hulk was throwing him around, then Hulk was free to give Thor his best shots and yet Thor walked away without any injury. So for your statement to be true, that Hulk was completely dominating Thor at the end of that fight, you'd have to assume that Hulk was hitting Thor with everything he's got.

So which will it be? Was he dominating Thor or not?

Hulk slammed Thor twice. TWICE. It's very presumptous of you to think that Thor was unable to retaliate after only getting slammed twice. Are you telling me that any fighter who gets hit twice is automatically assumed that he can't defend himself?

In any case, no one is saying Thor can beat Hulk in pure h2h. What we're debating here is that Thor will beat Hulk in an all out fight.

Banner was trying to resist Loki's influence, but there was nothing in the movie to show Hulk was resisting Loki's influence.

Hulk chasing Black Widow is an enraged Hulk who was lashing out at anyone in his way. He wasn't a cold blooded murderer who was clinically assessing what best move to do to instantaneously kill his prey. He was pissed off and he lashed out with the first attack he had, which was a backhand against Romanov. That proves that he was out of control.

Lol...a berserk Hulk would've killed Black Widow with a single punch.

Oh Carver, it's you. Why am I not surprised that you're taking Hulk's side here?

Because he is to the Hulk as Abhi is to Superman

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Iyo. What about the other instances? Did Thor stop those too?

What other instances? Black Widow was the only other human Hulk chased after before he got sidelined by Thor. After that, Hulk focused on the biggest threat that hurt him (Thor) and neglected the others.

As for the pilot, Hulk threw him away. That action would have caused the pilot's death. That was as good as a death throw. Except for the fact that he had a parachute. But I doubt Hulk knew that he had a parachute. For all intents and purposes, Hulk did try to kill that parachute.

As for Hulk landing in a barn, he didn't control his fall. Only good luck (and plot) allowed him to land in that barn.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...a berserk Hulk would've killed Black Widow with a single punch.

He was berserk, and he didn't even break a bone in her body.

He could't kill her, or Thor or Loki.

He's weak.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...a berserk Hulk would've killed Black Widow with a single punch.

Good thing he didn't punch her, eh?

He's weak, and small.