Caine Wise (Jupiter Ascending) vs. Darth Vader (ROTJ)

Thanks for reminding me Jupiter Ascending was a thing that exists. Darth Vader wins because he wasn't in Jupiter Ascending.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How can a moron like yourself be correcting anybody on spelling? You can barely put together a coherent sentence, let alone a argument. Your sentence structure is almost as piss poor as your debating skills. I'm beginning to think caving your face in to become smush face might have impacted your brain as well.

Let me correct the very sentence you try to mock me.

"Let alone an argument.

😂

This from the guy that said all beards were stupid. You're a train wreck and an idiot. You've never ever posted evidence just your opinion. Sad. Truly sad.

Originally posted by Robtard
Wrong, as shown.

Since you can't intelligently counter any of my points, you lost.

Vader Force-pulls Caine's gun (EpV) and then Force-crushes Caine's gravity-boots around his feet (EpIII), Caine plummets to the ground; Vader executes him. Game. Set. Match.

Or Vader just crushes Caine like a grape. Take your pick.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
He did it fairly casually, he formed his hand into a fist and it happened? 👆

>still implies being hurt by force lightning is a low end showing

You're not even trying, at this poin

Name one time where Jango Fett hurt Obi-Wan

Also, if Jango Fett can stand up to Obi-Wan, then good for him really (well ignoring Jango Fett was told to bring Jango back alive but, you know)

Red herring

Key difference being?

So you're just going to ignore his agility just because he uses a cane?

You're a ****ing idiot

And yet he beat Yoda 👆

Wrong

>implies that kicking through steel is really that big a deal in fiction
>ignores that Obi-Wan physically bested Grievous who can punch and tear durasteel with his strength and Mace Windu>>>

Good for Luke 👆

Could casually do so if he wanted to, it's just a stylistic choice

Nah, they're prolly slower, actually

It is since it has not killed anyone on its own. We have seen many get zapped not not die. Worst we have seen is the facial scarring on Palpatine but he's old and this did not occur to Luke. Force lightning didn't ko Luke, Yoda, Windu, or Palpatine.

Watch the fight. When he was attacked he was hurt. They both hurt each other just not significantly enough to lose the fight. We have seen Cad Bane stand up to Jedi as well. The point is that force powers don't easily crush someone without them. I just gave two Star Wars examples. 🙂

No, it isn't. That's exactly how it works.

Yoda needs a cane without his force powers but with them he can leap all over the place. His body doesn't change he just taps into the force to amp himself.

He uses a cane because he needs to. As he walks he doesn't use force powers. When he taps into his powers he can move like a cat. The point is his body is stil old when it isn't tapping into the powers. You're a moron who can't even grasp what it is I'm saying because you're dense.

Point is he was 0-2 in fits of holding onto his saber. That was my point.

False. Windu had to wait till the proper moment to find an opening. Just a well timed placed kick.

Obi attacked grievous and hurt himself. 🙂

He killed him due to a gun.

So despite wanting to kill he walked away like nothing happened. Weak.

So no examples just imaginative feats.

False. More maneuverable, quicker, etc.

Caine Wise wins.

On a scale of 10 how bad did this movie suck?

10 being total suck

1 being it sucked bad.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
On a scale of 10 how bad did this movie suck?

10 being total suck

1 being it sucked bad.

Originally posted by quanchi112
[B]How long did it take to happen ? Can you even tell me ? I can give multiple instances of double digit time it takes for Hugh end forced users doing something to impressive.

As long as it took him to form his hand into a fist. If you can't put 2 and 2 together, then I cannot help you

It is since it has not killed anyone on its own. We have seen many get zapped not not die.

Because only people we've seen it used on are force users

"Superman punched people on his level and they survived his punches, so that means that he couldn't kill a person just with a shockwave of his punch"

That's essentially your argument

Worst we have seen is the facial scarring on Palpatine but he's old and this did not occur to Luke. Force lightning didn't ko Luke, Yoda, Windu, or Palpatine.

Good on them for surviving it 👆

Watch the fight. When he was attacked he was hurt. They both hurt each other just not significantly enough to lose the fight.

In that case, good on Jango if he can stand up to Jedi physically 👆

We have seen Cad Bane stand up to Jedi as well. The point is that force powers don't easily crush someone without them. I just gave two Star Wars examples. 🙂

They never used force powers on them you mong, and if Cad Bane can stand up to Jedi, either lolowendshowing or Cad Bane is just that good

Your only argument now is "he didn't use it every single situation he ever appeared in so he's not allowed to use it here", which isn't a valid argument, at all

No, it isn't. That's exactly how it works.

Red herring

Yoda needs a cane without his force powers but with them he can leap all over the place. His body doesn't change he just taps into the force to amp himself.

Yoda's feats of physicality exist whether you like them or not, your cane point is nothing but a red herring

He uses a cane because he needs to. As he walks he doesn't use force powers. When he taps into his powers he can move like a cat. The point is his body is stil old when it isn't tapping into the powers.

Oh look, another red herring, moving on

You're a moron who can't even grasp what it is I'm saying because you're dense.

Point is he was 0-2 in fits of holding onto his saber. That was my point.

Your "point" is nothing more than an irrelevant tangent, that's not going to work here

False. Windu had to wait till the proper moment to find an opening. Just a well timed placed kick.

Speculation

Obi attacked grievous and hurt himself. 🙂

What the **** is your point? How does this change that Obi was able to physically overpower Grievous?

He killed him due to a gun.

Grievous' own gun, which was calc'd over at SpaceBattles at being several megajoules due to vaporising his organs or some shit

So despite wanting to kill he walked away like nothing happened. Weak.

Or Luke is just that durable, perhaps that seriously eluded you?

So no examples just imaginative feats.

Crushing an AT-AT is not an imaginary feat 👆

Neither is Dooku force crushing/ripping bolted machinery and pillars with the force

"He crushed an AT-AT but that doesn't mean he can crush humans which are way less durable!!11!!!"

You ****ing suck at debating

False. More maneuverable, quicker, etc.

Prove it 👆

Anyways Vader force crushed Caine's gravity boots, meaning Cain falls over unable to move and then force crushes his neck, killing him

/thread

Originally posted by StealthRanger
As long as it took him to form his hand into a fist. If you can't put 2 and 2 together, then I cannot help you

Because only people we've seen it used on are force users

"Superman punched people on his level and they survived his punches, so that means that he couldn't kill a person just with a shockwave of his punch"

That's essentially your argument

Good on them for surviving it 👆

In that case, good on Jango if he can stand up to Jedi physically 👆

They never used force powers on them you mong, and if Cad Bane can stand up to Jedi, either lolowendshowing or Cad Bane is just that good

Your only argument now is "he didn't use it every single situation he ever appeared in so he's not allowed to use it here", which isn't a valid argument, at all

Red herring

Yoda's feats of physicality exist whether you like them or not, your cane point is nothing but a red herring

Oh look, another red herring, moving on

Your "point" is nothing more than an irrelevant tangent, that's not going to work here

Speculation

What the **** is your point? How does this change that Obi was able to physically overpower Grievous?

Grievous' own gun, which was calc'd over at SpaceBattles at being several megajoules due to vaporising his organs or some shit

Or Luke is just that durable, perhaps that seriously eluded you?

Crushing an AT-AT is not an imaginary feat 👆

Neither is Dooku force crushing/ripping bolted machinery and pillars with the force

"He crushed an AT-AT but that doesn't mean he can crush humans which are way less durable!!11!!!"

You ****ing suck at debating

Prove it 👆

Anyways Vader force crushed Caine's gravity boots, meaning Cain falls over unable to move and then force crushes his neck, killing him

/thread

They still have bodies which die from lasers, etc. tapping into the force is one thing but they have normal bodies when not tapping into the force.

Incorrect. Superman has feats to prove his invulnerability and his strength. Humans with force abilities still have human bodies auapectiable to damage outside their force abilities being used. That's my argument which is undeniable.

Again, it hasn't killed anyone so saying it can without proof is baseless. We have examples of people surviving. Force users were eradicated by order 66. Should I give examples of non force users killing or hurting Jedi with their weapons.

😂

So you admit a skilled opponent can hurt a skilled Jedi. Enter Caine. Whose feats blow Jango's out of the water. 🙂

We see Obi use force powers against Jango.

Boom. That's proof destroying your imaginative debating skills.

Wrong. That's proof.

He needs to tap into the force to do the feats. When he does not tap I tot he force he needsa cane to walk. His feats with the force are fine but without the guy's body is so bad he needs a cane. He'd old.

I am not upset just talking down to you.

You said the kick was badass. It wasn't and palpatine was disarmed twice. It's a running gag in the Star Wars films how often they lose their sabers with George Lucas anyway.

So is your theory that it was the badass kick.

He was not able. He had to use his powers and shoot him with a saber. Obi can't overpower Grievous physically.

So by vaporizing limbs Khan's gun is flat out superior to this gun which took out a weak heart. Obi couldn't blow the heart up he needed to get the gun to do it. Just like what I've always been saying.

Luke lost a hand before fine. I have other examples of humans surviving it. Order 66 eradicated the force users. I still have one gigantic piece of proof to mock the Jedi I haven't used yet.

Movie feats only. At At is not a human. Give me the reference so I can verify. Comic or new book released ?

Dooku has but it took him many seconds. Want me to time it out ? We see him tear up machinery but not yoda. 😂

You have to first post the feat and then I'll post skilled opponents reacting much faster than an at at.

Based on what ? Quit making things up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you can't prove it. What medium was this feat in ? It is against forum rules but I'll allow it since you're so desperate. If you can't prove a time frame then you can't say it's immediately. Need proof.

Blah blah downplaying, blah blah dishonest bullshit

Come back to me when you learn the difference between debating and spewing bullshit

Oh and it's Disney Canon so, it's all good

They still have bodies which die from lasers, etc. tapping into the force is one thing but they have normal bodies when not tapping into the force.

Been there done that, blasters are far more concentrated form of damage, blaster bolts vaporise 0.5m sections of durasteel, etc

And yeah, alot of fiction characters use some kind of energy to augment their physical abilities so, useless red herring

Incorrect. Superman has feats to prove his invulnerability and his strength.

So do force users you dumb shit

The whole "did x so it'd logically be within his ability to do x which is way below it" applies universally or it doesn't apply at all, you can;t have it both ways and make up special pleading as you go along

Humans with force abilities still have human bodies auapectiable to damage outside their force abilities being used. That's my argument which is undeniable.

So Jedi aren't superhuman. Fascinating

Again, it hasn't killed anyone so saying it can without proof is baseless. We have examples of people surviving.

"It didn't kill person of x level so it can't kill some schmuck who's way below it"

You're not even trying

Force users were eradicated by order 66. Should I give examples of non force users killing or hurting Jedi with their weapons.

You say that as if non force users in Star Wars aren't powerful as well or Star Wars weapons must be weak because they're wielded by non force users

So you admit a skilled opponent can hurt a skilled Jedi. Enter Caine. Whose feats blow Jango's out of the water. 🙂

If Jango can stand against Obi-Wan, then Jango's above Caine 👆

Right "skilled opponent", such an excellent quantifier /sarcasm

We see Obi use force powers against Jango.

No he doesn't

Boom. That's proof destroying your imaginative debating skills.

Wrong. That's proof.

Nothing of substance here, more useless red herrings and irrelevant tangents, moving on

He needs to tap into the force to do the feats. When he does not tap I tot he force he needsa cane to walk. His feats with the force are fine but without the guy's body is so bad he needs a cane. He'd old.

Been there done that, tons of characters in fiction use some kind of energy source to

.

Shhh, it's okay quanchi, if it makes you feel better you can write a fanfic where Khan and Voldemort can actually defeat Sith Lords, Maia, Kryptonians, etc and I can show you where you can put it

You said the kick was badass. It wasn't and palpatine was disarmed twice. It's a running gag in the Star Wars films how often they lose their sabers with George Lucas anyway.

You say that as if anything could disarm Palpatine

So is your theory that it was the badass kick.

If it could disarm Palpatine, the yes, it is 👆

He was not able. He had to use his powers and shoot him with a saber. Obi can't overpower Grievous physically.

He deflect Grievous' sword swings and even dismembered him

Also shoot him with a saber, bro do you even Star Wars?

So by vaporizing limbs Khan's gun is flat out superior to this gun which took out a weak heart. Obi couldn't blow the heart up he needed to get the gun to do it. Just like what I've always been saying.

Khan's not in this thread, asspie

Luke lost a hand before fine. I have other examples of humans surviving it. Order 66 eradicated the force users. I still have one gigantic piece of proof to mock the Jedi I haven't used yet.

Senator Armstrong had his arm cut off too once, guess he's weak too rite?

"Human" is just an arbitary title in fiction, only feats matter

Order 66, oh you mean hundreds of billions of clones, vehicles, speeders, etc vs what... 9000 Jedi, yeah

Movie feats only. At At is not a human. Give me the reference so I can verify. Comic or new book released ?

AT-AT>>>>>>human

You're just stonewalling

Dooku has but it took him many seconds. Want me to time it out ? We see him tear up machinery but not yoda. 😂

Yeah and Dante's subsonic because we see the running down the tower thing taking several seconds even though he blatantly outran his sword which moved at Mach 7, DBZ characters are subsonic because they spend episodes charging up attacks, the bullet fired at Ultimecia in FF* was so slow because we can see it, etc according to you

Only relevant speed feats matter, everything else is just useless shite and if you actually wanted to quantify every teensy tiny "feat" everything would only be low end superhuman

And of course he didn't crush Yoda, because Yoda was way more powerful than him you god damn dipshit

You have to first post the feat and then I'll post skilled opponents reacting much faster than an at at.

Aww look at that, too easy

Based on what ? Quit making things up.

Force Crushing an AT-AT. He force crushes Caine's boots and then his head #can'tbedenied

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Blah blah downplaying, blah blah dishonest bullshit

Come back to me when you learn the difference between debating and spewing bullshit

Oh and it's Disney Canon so, it's all good

Been there done that, blasters are far more concentrated form of damage, blaster bolts vaporise 0.5m sections of durasteel, etc

And yeah, alot of fiction characters use some kind of energy to augment their physical abilities so, useless red herring

So do force users you dumb shit

The whole "did x so it'd logically be within his ability to do x which is way below it" applies universally or it doesn't apply at all, you can;t have it both ways and make up special pleading as you go along

So Jedi aren't superhuman. Fascinating

"It didn't kill person of x level so it can't kill some schmuck who's way below it"

You're not even trying

You say that as if non force users in Star Wars aren't powerful as well or Star Wars weapons must be weak because they're wielded by non force users

If Jango can stand against Obi-Wan, then Jango's above Caine 👆

Right "skilled opponent", such an excellent quantifier /sarcasm

No he doesn't

Nothing of substance here, more useless red herrings and irrelevant tangents, moving on

Been there done that, tons of characters in fiction use some kind of energy source to

Shhh, it's okay quanchi, if it makes you feel better you can write a fanfic where Khan and Voldemort can actually defeat Sith Lords, Maia, Kryptonians, etc and I can show you where you can put it

You say that as if anything could disarm Palpatine

If it could disarm Palpatine, the yes, it is 👆

He deflect Grievous' sword swings and even dismembered him

Also shoot him with a saber, bro do you even Star Wars?

Khan's not in this thread, asspie

Senator Armstrong had his arm cut off too once, guess he's weak too rite?

"Human" is just an arbitary title in fiction, only feats matter

Order 66, oh you mean hundreds of billions of clones, vehicles, speeders, etc vs what... 9000 Jedi, yeah

AT-AT>>>>>>human

You're just stonewalling

Yeah and Dante's subsonic because we see the running down the tower thing taking several seconds even though he blatantly outran his sword which moved at Mach 7, DBZ characters are subsonic because they spend episodes charging up attacks, the bullet fired at Ultimecia in FF* was so slow because we can see it, etc according to you

Only relevant speed feats matter, everything else is just useless shite and if you actually wanted to quantify every teensy tiny "feat" everything would only be low end superhuman

And of course he didn't crush Yoda, because Yoda was way more powerful than him you god damn dipshit

Aww look at that, too easy

Force Crushing an AT-AT. He force crushes Caine's boots and then his head #can'tbedenied

The difference is I have given other examples such as Jango holding his own despite not having force powers and being fine. I also gave examples of force lightning and I hear the same response. Basically your logic boils down to fanboyism. Everything in Star Wars is badass, bro. It's hysterically stupid.

Not in the same manner. Superman wouldn't get into a back and forth fight with Jango. He's portrayed a certain way and so are the Jedi. Nothing against them but they aren't these unbeatable force power sporting badasses. It is absolutely portrayals and having the examples to bolster your case.

Force users don't blow up bodies. Superman's hv has blown through them.

Their bodies aren't. Without tapping into the force they can't jump superhuman distances. It isn't autocmatic so they have to tap into them to do so otherwise yoda has to use his cane. Boom.

It hasn't killed anyone so you can't assume it kills someone obviously superior to most sci if characters in Caine. You need evidence to suggest so and you don't have one example. It hasn't killed anyone.

No, their weapons are clearly powerful enough to kill them p. I am saying despite their lack of force powers they got the drop on them and eradicated their order for the most part in a very short timeframe.

Why ? What makes you say Caine can't hang with Obi ? You admitted you haven't even seen the film so you're just saying ignorant things.

He uses them to try to get his saber back. That's using force powers against Jango. Same thing he did against grievous but it was effective.

Concession accepted.

But minus the connection their bodies remain just like older or younger bodies. The force can't make them any younger.

What you said is bs. I debate based off evidence, timed attacks, the behavior of characters, debating consistently, and knowing both sides unlike yourself.

He was disarmed before. What attacks has he withstood that impressed you ? You just say hey it's palpatine and minus proof it's impressive. You're a rabid fanboy.

So ? Yoda can block much bigger opponents. It has to do with the skill of the saber used not strength. He shot him with his laser gun. That's how he won. If he could have just used the force to crush his heart then why not ? 😂

Khan wins too. Just another example, sport.

At no point were billions of clones lined up against Jedi. Quit exaggerating.m the scenes we see it's pathetic. There aren't any feats to suggest uber durability you just make shit up. Watch Obi hit grievous. Watch how he cries in pain. Hahhaah.

Those are the rules.

I'm glad you posted the scan. I'm going to thrash this over exaggerated feat.

Force crush feats and the timing it used to pull it off matters. Apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

Yoda's body isn't more durable. He only needs to catch him off guard. Yoda despite all his power just force pushed palpatine.

They exchanged over 25 words in the time it took to attack the At At.

The two humans in the At At were fine. Another attack that takes a decent amount of time in which the two humans were a-ok at the end if the feat.

Hahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhaah.

I think I counted 31 words. Insta crushed my ass.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Whwther it's canon or not isn't the point it's agains ft be rules. Most people who come to argue here don't read Star Wars comics. I say it's canon so I'll allow it but it is against the rules.

Glad to see we agree it's legitimacy

The difference is I have given other examples such as Jango holding his own despite not having force powers and being fine.

Right because rule of thumb in Star Wars, if you don't have the force you're a weakling hurrdy hurr hurr

I also gave examples of force lightning and I hear the same response.

You have no arguments against it, just "some people survived it who are actually powerful"

Basically your logic boils down to fanboyism. Everything in Star Wars is badass, bro. It's hysterically stupid.

Well if Jango and Cad can fight Jedi on even grounds physically, yeah

Not in the same manner. Superman wouldn't get into a back and forth fight with Jango.

No shit

He's portrayed a certain way and so are the Jedi. Nothing against them but they aren't these unbeatable force power sporting badasses. It is absolutely portrayals and having the examples to bolster your case.

You don't have to have the force to be powerful in Star Wars bruh

Just look at ****ers like Durge and Grievous

I mean, Solid Snake from Metal Gear is a "human soldier" yet I'd personally bet on him stomping Caine the **** out with his left nut

Force users don't blow up bodies. Superman's hv has blown through them.

Their feats put them at the point where they could, it's just a stylistic choice

Their bodies aren't. Without tapping into the force they can't jump superhuman distances. It isn't autocmatic so they have to tap into them to do so otherwise yoda has to use his cane. Boom.

Even Superman uses some form of energy to become more physically powerful, along with alot of Marvel/DC characters, anime series like DBZ, YYH use ki to augment themselves physically, etc

And no quan "derp it's magic so it's special" is not a valid argument

It hasn't killed anyone so you can't assume it kills someone obviously superior to most sci if characters in Caine.

Such a shame you can't show me those feats of Caine that make him "superior"

You need evidence to suggest so and you don't have one example. It hasn't killed anyone.

"just because he crushed an AT-AT doesn't mean he can kill a person with a force crush too!"

Because repeating the same shit ad nauseum is a valid tactic

No, their weapons are clearly powerful enough to kill them p. I am saying despite their lack of force powers they got the drop on them and eradicated their order for the most part in a very short timeframe.

You seem to have this weird preconception that if a character in Star Wars doesn't have the force he's automatically weak

Why ? What makes you say Caine can't hang with Obi ? You admitted you haven't even seen the film so you're just saying ignorant things.

I don't know, what feats would make me believe he can hang with a guy who can

>deflect blaster bolts that have supersonic to low hypersonic feats from tens of meters away
>runs down a several hundred feet hallway in a second or two
>is able to at least last for a bit against a guy who can collapse a ceiling and crush durasteel pillars and machinery

He uses them to try to get his saber back. That's using force powers against Jango. Same thing he did against grievous but it was effective.

That's not the same thing as using telekinesis on Jango directly you dumb shit

Concession accepted.

There was no concession to be had

But minus the connection their bodies remain just like older or younger bodies. The force can't make them any younger.

Been there done that

What you said is bs. I debate based off evidence, timed attacks, the behavior of characters, debating consistently, and knowing both sides unlike yourself.

Timing out speed feats only works when they're stuff like, say flying into orbit in seconds and punching someone in a microsecond, etc

Wanna do what you're doing and all of fiction would only be subsonic

Most of fiction is unquantifiable. When someone on the OBD did a Fantastic Four respect thread he only found 10-15 quantifiable feats per 50 issues. Good reason you can't just nitpick any random thing and just say "oh it didn't look impressive to me so it obviously isn't", reason why we take the best feats and assume it to be indicative of the character's capability, barring SMvsFL type outliers

He was disarmed before. What attacks has he withstood that impressed you ? You just say hey it's palpatine and minus proof it's impressive. You're a rabid fanboy.

Is much more durable than Jedi who can

>survive leaping from hundreds of meters and above
>freefall onto a lanspeeder moving at at least several hundreds of kilometers per hour
>can survive attacks from Yoda, who is superior to Dooku, who, as aforementioned, collapsed parts of a ceiling and crushed a durasteel pillar

So ? Yoda can block much bigger opponents. It has to do with the skill of the saber used not strength. He shot him with his laser gun.

Because Yoda can't be physically strong too.....

Of course strength matters you dipshit, if he can block his attacks, they'd be comparable

Skill means dick when you're outclassed physically

That's how he won. If he could have just used the force to crush his heart then why not ? 😂

Because Jedi don't use such powers typically, such powers are more utilized by Sith and Dark jedi

Cut it out with the ridiculous downplaying and double standards. "Why doesn;t he do what I think he should do" is not a valid question and certainly does not let you weasel your way out of feats and powerscaling

At no point were billions of clones lined up against Jedi. Quit exaggerating.m the scenes we see it's pathetic.

You're a ****ing idiot. Of course there are billions of clones, how else do you manage a galaxy with 12 million planets and an even greater number of colonies

And I never said that all the clones at once killed all the Jedi in one group

There aren't any feats to suggest uber durability you just make shit up.

Ignoring feats doesn't make them go away

Watch Obi hit grievous. Watch how he cries in pain. Hahhaah.

Try headbutting another human, would you be hurt? Of course you would you dumb shit, you'd hurt yourself punching another person very hard too

I'm glad you posted the scan. I'm going to thrash this over exaggerated feat.

Force crush feats and the timing it used to pull it off matters. Apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

He did it very casually 👆

Yoda's body isn't more durable. He only needs to catch him off guard. Yoda despite all his power just force pushed palpatine.

Common tripe in fiction where you can't do this shit to opponents as strong as you

Same reason why shonen characters can bust cities and planets casually yet when they fight don't go flying all the way to Timbucktoo with the air pressure of their attacks

They [B]exchanged over 25 words in the time it took to attack the At At.

The two humans in the At At were fine. Another attack that takes a decent amount of time in which the two humans were a-ok at the end if the feat.

Hahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhaah.

I think I counted 31 words. Insta crushed my ass. [/B]

I... is this seriously your argument?

Don't tell me you never heard of the whole "talking is a free action" trope

You know, same reason massively hypersonic characters can fight and have conversations in fiction

😂 at quanchi112 thinking a human can travel faster than an AT-AT. The fail is most strong in this one. Most strong

Originally posted by Robtard
😂 at quanchi112 thinking a human can travel faster than an AT-AT. The fail is most strong in this one. Most strong

😂

Look at you doing flips for me again, haven't you figured out that yor lies can be exposed using the quote function?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why has he never force crushed a human then ? Are humans as slow as At At's ?

But now it's "maneuver faster". Out maneuvering the Force 😂 The fail is most strong in you.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Glad to see we agree it's legitimacy

Right because rule of thumb in Star Wars, if you don't have the force you're a weakling hurrdy hurr hurr

You have no arguments against it, just "some people survived it who are actually powerful"

Well if Jango and Cad can fight Jedi on even grounds physically, yeah

No shit

You don't have to have the force to be powerful in Star Wars bruh

Just look at ****ers like Durge and Grievous

I mean, Solid Snake from Metal Gear is a "human soldier" yet I'd personally bet on him stomping Caine the **** out with his left nut

Their feats put them at the point where they could, it's just a stylistic choice

Even Superman uses some form of energy to become more physically powerful, along with alot of Marvel/DC characters, anime series like DBZ, YYH use ki to augment themselves physically, etc

And no quan "derp it's magic so it's special" is not a valid argument

Such a shame you can't show me those feats of Caine that make him "superior"

"just because he crushed an AT-AT doesn't mean he can kill a person with a force crush too!"

Because repeating the same shit ad nauseum is a valid tactic

You seem to have this weird preconception that if a character in Star Wars doesn't have the force he's automatically weak

I don't know, what feats would make me believe he can hang with a guy who can

>deflect blaster bolts that have supersonic to low hypersonic feats from tens of meters away
>runs down a several hundred feet hallway in a second or two
>is able to at least last for a bit against a guy who can collapse a ceiling and crush durasteel pillars and machinery

That's not the same thing as using telekinesis on Jango directly you dumb shit

There was no concession to be had

Been there done that

Timing out speed feats only works when they're stuff like, say flying into orbit in seconds and punching someone in a microsecond, etc

Wanna do what you're doing and all of fiction would only be subsonic

Most of fiction is unquantifiable. When someone on the OBD did a Fantastic Four respect thread he only found 10-15 quantifiable feats per 50 issues. Good reason you can't just nitpick any random thing and just say "oh it didn't look impressive to me so it obviously isn't", reason why we take the best feats and assume it to be indicative of the character's capability, barring SMvsFL type outliers

Is much more durable than Jedi who can

>survive leaping from hundreds of meters and above
>freefall onto a lanspeeder moving at at least several hundreds of kilometers per hour
>can survive attacks from Yoda, who is superior to Dooku, who, as aforementioned, collapsed parts of a ceiling and crushed a durasteel pillar

Because Yoda can't be physically strong too.....

Of course strength matters you dipshit, if he can block his attacks, they'd be comparable

Skill means dick when you're outclassed physically

Because Jedi don't use such powers typically, such powers are more utilized by Sith and Dark jedi

Cut it out with the ridiculous downplaying and double standards. "Why doesn;t he do what I think he should do" is not a valid question and certainly does not let you weasel your way out of feats and powerscaling

You're a ****ing idiot. Of course there are billions of clones, how else do you manage a galaxy with 12 million planets and an even greater number of colonies

And I never said that all the clones at once killed all the Jedi in one group

Ignoring feats doesn't make them go away

Try headbutting another human, would you be hurt? Of course you would you dumb shit, you'd hurt yourself punching another person very hard too

He did it very casually 👆

Common tripe in fiction where you can't do this shit to opponents as strong as you

Same reason why shonen characters can bust cities and planets casually yet when they fight don't go flying all the way to Timbucktoo with the air pressure of their attacks

I... is this seriously your argument?

Don't tell me you never heard of the whole "talking is a free action" trope

You know, same reason massively hypersonic characters can fight and have conversations in fiction

You acted as if Caine is nothing to Vader. Now other non force users were clearly a threat to force users and it's no big deal. Force user is cool an d all but it is not some all time trump card.

You don't have any examples of it killing anyone. You need proof to suggest the force lightning is powerful. Period.

So you admit non force users can physically take on force users. Progress.

Another agreement with me.

You admitted you never saw the film so your opinion is the definition of bias and ignorance.

No, you can't use it for an example but I could since that has occurred. Quit making up excuses. At no point has a force user done so. We have seen light sabers tear through bodies so don't act like its against the rules in Star Wars.

Superman does not need to tap into the energy consciously. Force users need to consciously do so. If a force user such as yoda doesn't tap into the force he needs a cane. Superman doesn't need to turn it on to block a bullet with his skin. That's the difference.

The clips aren't up. Go watch the movie, cheapskate.

It took over 30 words and the at at was not completely destroyed. It's an awful feat in which the humans were fine inside it.

I never once said that. I just always argued force users don't win against non force users because of their connection to the force.

His feats in the film. His maneuverability, speed, weaponry, shielding, and hand to hand combat make this a no brainer.

He used them in battle against Jango. Too bad he didn't win despite using his force powers.

You lost.

So now we can't time out attacks but somehow You still claim it halogens instantaneously. You're a joke. This is quantifiable. It's actually pathetic.

Yoda is not that durable. He survived one fall but Caine has fallen from grater heights in his film. Yoda never directly hit him with anything save a force push. That's just a hard push.

Yoda can use the force but he isn't some mega strong dude he taps into the force. That's how sabers work. Obi can't have a test of strength with grievous but he can block his attacks with a saber.

So despite Obi wanting and eventually killing him using his force powers to destroy his heart is out of bounds ? GTFO. I am not saying why not force lightning. I am saying why not use tk to kill him directly. You don't have one example still.

We don't see billions overrun Jedi. We still thousands at the Jedi temple. We also see far less just kill these idiotic precog Jedi.

I have not ignored anything.

No, I wouldn't. Grievous is more durable which is why Obi was hurt. Obi kicked anakin before and was fine because flesh is easier to kick. Are you dumb ?

No, and it took over thirty words and the people inside it were fine.

😂

Prove it. A force push doesn't ko unless it causes the victim to hit into something else.

We have seen tk feats before and they all take a lot of time. This was no different.

💃

Originally posted by Robtard
Look at you doing flips for me again, haven't you figured out that yor lies can be exposed using the quote function?

But now it's "maneuver faster". Out maneuvering the Force 😂 The fail is most strong in you.

You're an idiot and always show up like the redneck that you are.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You need all the help you can get.

No u

You acted as if Caine is nothing to Vader. Now other non force users were clearly a threat to force users and it's no big deal.

Aaaand still using arbitary titles over actual feats again

Force user is cool an d all but it is not some all time trump card.

lolstrawman

You don't have any examples of it killing anyone. You need proof to suggest the force lightning is powerful. Period.

Dooku's force lightning KOing Anakin who leaps hundreds of meters and freefalls just fine onto a several hundred km/h speeder

Palpatine's force lightning outright crippling and killing Vader

So you admit non force users can physically take on force users. Progress.

"non force user" is just an arbitary title and nothing else, only feats matter and if they can stand up to Jedi and Sith physically, then that says alot about their abilities

You admitted you never saw the film so your opinion is the definition of bias and ignorance.

I accept your concession

No, you can't use it for an example but I could since that has occurred. Quit making up excuses. At no point has a force user done so. We have seen light sabers tear through bodies so don't act like its against the rules in Star Wars.

Their feats put them at the point where they logically could, unless you believe humans are more durable than several meters thick worth of durasteel

Superman does not need to tap into the energy consciously. Force users need to consciously do so. If a force user such as yoda doesn't tap into the force he needs a cane. Superman doesn't need to turn it on to block a bullet with his skin. That's the difference.

Still utilizes some form of energy to become as physically powerful as he is and his power not solely due to his biology

In other words, your entire argument is just another red herring

The clips aren't up. Go watch the movie, cheapskate.

I accept your concession, again

It took over 30 words and the at at was not completely destroyed. It's an awful feat in which the humans were fine inside it.

Talking is a free action, Vader was crushing the AT-AT, not the humans you dumb shit

I never once said that. I just always argued force users don't win against non force users because of their connection to the force.

The what the **** is your argument supposed to be if you're just latching onto arbitary titles

His feats in the film. His maneuverability, speed, weaponry, shielding, and hand to hand combat make this a no brainer.

Unless you can tell me what those "feats" are, then this is just another assertion

He used them in battle against Jango. Too bad he didn't win despite using his force powers.

He never force pushed him of used his telekinesis to drown Jango, or tear his jetpack off and let him fall to his death you dumb****

So now we can't time out attacks but somehow You still claim it halogens instantaneously. You're a joke. This is quantifiable. It's actually pathetic.

Speed is defined by higher end feats that aren't outright outliers, most of fiction is unquantifiable (if you actually tried to quantify most of fiction, most of it would only be low end superhuman at best)

Else I could do the same for Star Trek and Harry Potter

Yoda is not that durable. He survived one fall but Caine has fallen from grater heights in his film. Yoda never directly hit him with anything save a force push. That's just a hard push.

>survives a freefall
>survives force lightning from Palpatine
>is more durable than Anakin who frefalls from several km up onto a speeder moving at several hundred km/h

You're a terrible troll

Yoda can use the force but he isn't some mega strong dude he taps into the force. That's how sabers work. Obi can't have a test of strength with grievous but he can block his attacks with a saber.

Greivous is strong enough to dent durasteel with his punches, Obi-Wan blocked his physical attacks, meaning Obi-Wan is just as strong

So despite Obi wanting and eventually killing him using his force powers to destroy his heart is out of bounds ? GTFO. I am not saying why not force lightning. I am saying why not use tk to kill him directly. You don't have one example still.

Still doing the whole "why didn't he do what I think he should have done!!!11!!", which isn't a valid argument

We don't see billions overrun Jedi. We still thousands at the Jedi temple. We also see far less just kill these idiotic precog Jedi.

Right because you can run an empire of 12 million systems with thousands of troops hurr durr silly me

No, I wouldn't. Grievous is more durable which is why Obi was hurt. Obi kicked anakin before and was fine because flesh is easier to kick. Are you dumb ?

So you'd be unhurt by headbutting someone else's skull then? Don't be a retard

No, and it took over thirty words and the people inside it were fine.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TalkingIsAFreeAction

You know, same reason massively hypersonic characters can have conversations while fighting

Prove it. A force push doesn't ko unless it causes the victim to hit into something else.

Clone Wars: Ventress and Ashoka both Ko several bodyguards and stormtroopers with a force push, Savage Opress K.O's Jedi with force pushes, TPM: Obi-Wan disables several droids with a force push

Aww look at that, too easy

We have seen tk feats before and they all take a lot of time. This was no different.

💃

Been there done that, only actual speed feats matter, feats won't be timed in microsecond on screen, etc

Originally posted by StealthRanger
No u

Aaaand still using arbitary titles over actual feats again

lolstrawman

Dooku's force lightning KOing Anakin who leaps hundreds of meters and freefalls just fine onto a several hundred km/h speeder

Palpatine's force lightning outright crippling and killing Vader

"non force user" is just an arbitary title and nothing else, only feats matter and if they can stand up to Jedi and Sith physically, then that says alot about their abilities

I accept your concession

Their feats put them at the point where they logically could, unless you believe humans are more durable than several meters thick worth of durasteel

Still utilizes some form of energy to become as physically powerful as he is and his power not solely due to his biology

In other words, your entire argument is just another red herring

I accept your concession, again

Talking is a free action, Vader was crushing the AT-AT, not the humans you dumb shit

The what the **** is your argument supposed to be if you're just latching onto arbitary titles

Unless you can tell me what those "feats" are, then this is just another assertion

He never force pushed him of used his telekinesis to drown Jango, or tear his jetpack off and let him fall to his death you dumb****

Speed is defined by higher end feats that aren't outright outliers, most of fiction is unquantifiable (if you actually tried to quantify most of fiction, most of it would only be low end superhuman at best)

Else I could do the same for Star Trek and Harry Potter

>survives a freefall
>survives force lightning from Palpatine
>is more durable than Anakin who frefalls from several km up onto a speeder moving at several hundred km/h

You're a terrible troll

Greivous is strong enough to dent durasteel with his punches, Obi-Wan blocked his physical attacks, meaning Obi-Wan is just as strong

Still doing the whole "why didn't he do what I think he should have done!!!11!!", which isn't a valid argument

Right because you can run an empire of 12 million systems with thousands of troops hurr durr silly me

So you'd be unhurt by headbutting someone else's skull then? Don't be a retard

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TalkingIsAFreeAction

You know, same reason massively hypersonic characters can have conversations while fighting

Clone Wars: Ventress and Ashoka both Ko several bodyguards and stormtroopers with a force push, Savage Opress K.O's Jedi with force pushes, TPM: Obi-Wan disables several droids with a force push

Aww look at that, too easy

Been there done that, only actual speed feats matter, feats won't be timed in microsecond on screen, etc

I have feats that suggest Caine is a threat. I have supported and you agree with my stance skilled non force users are a threat to force users and then some.

You already agreed.

So no proof of it killing someone. It also kod him because he was not ready and ran in half cocked like the typical rage baby he's been known for. Far less powerful than lasers or a light saber. The Lightning shorted out his suit. It did not outright kill him.

I agree but caines abilities and feats make Jango look like a peasant.

You already conceded to ignorance. Pitiful.

I don't believe they have ever done so. Vader opposed humans in an at at and was unable to force crush them. You need an example of the tactic you are using against a humanoid creature.

You already conceded to ignorance.

So they talked while it took a considerable amount of time and the at at was never completely trashed still.

Caines abilities and feats are greater than Star Wars characters who have posed threats to Jedi.

You need to watch the film. I can't post clips at this point.

Because he couldn't. If he could easily do so then you'd have one example of all the Jedi fights. You don't. Obi did what he could. Period. Facts.

Feel fre to time out the attacks in every film. I don't just do so selectively. Speed is defined by all feats. All facts not ones you determine don't count. All facts are facts. Selecting is using your own bias.

1. So have many characters in fiction.
2. Force lightning has not killed anyone save caused the death of Vader due to his shitty suit.
3. No, he isn't. Anakin didn't need to rely on his suit for life then but now he clearly does so even force lightning caused his eventual death due to it being s liability.

Obi is not just as strong. That's ridiculous. We see Obi is clearly not as strong as grievous. He can't go toe to toe with him physically but he can do so with Anakin.

Facts are irrefutable. Your speculation isn't.

We go by what we see. At no point did a billion clones ever take on Jedi. You're exaggerating numbers and outright lying.

This feat wasn't hypersonic. We have seen them in live films and it takes many seconds. All supported and makes sense despite your worship of this feat.

Give the episode numbers so I can rewatch to verify your claims.

All feats timing matters. Facts matter. You argue you can select certain feats while dismissing others. That's bias and fanboyism.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have feats that suggest Caine is a threat. I have supported and you agree with my stance skilled non force users are a threat to force users and then some.

So, what are they exactly

You already agreed.

Nope

So no proof of it killing someone. It also kod him because he was not ready and ran in half cocked like the typical rage baby he's been known for. Far less powerful than lasers or a light saber. The Lightning shorted out his suit. It did not outright kill him.

The lightning killed Vader you dumb shit

I agree but caines abilities and feats make Jango look like a peasant.

Caine can fight toe to toe with a guy who can deflect lasers from close range, survive near contact detonations from heavy laser cannons, match a guy who can easily TK a massive space shuttle, etc?

I don't believe they have ever done so. Vader opposed humans in an at at and was unable to force crush them. You need an example of the tactic you are using against a humanoid creature.

"He crushed an AT-AT but that doesn;t mean he can't force crush a human!" or "He can only use the force in x extremely specific ways!"

Your argument may as well be "Yoda never lifted a teacup with the force, so he can't do that even though he's lifed an X-Wing"

Hey quanchi, we never saw Vader sit down onscreen, bet he can't do that either according to you, right?

So they talked while it took a considerable amount of time and the at at was never completely trashed still.

"I still don't know what talking is a free action is"

Caines abilities and feats are greater than Star Wars characters who have posed threats to Jedi.

Well if said people can pose a threat to Jedi, then they clearly aren;t

You need to watch the film. I can't post clips at this point.

I accept your concession

Because he couldn't. If he could easily do so then you'd have one example of all the Jedi fights. You don't. Obi did what he could. Period.

"He didn't do that every single fight he ever appeared in so he's not allowed to do it"

You're not even trying

Feel fre to time out the attacks in every film. I don't just do so selectively. Speed is defined by all feats. All facts not ones you determine don't count. All facts are facts. Selecting is using your own bias.

By all feats, we mean feats that are actually indicative of speed (ie. travelling many kilometers in a second, punching someone thousands of times a second or punching someone in the span of a microsecond), indeed, not "pick any random "feat" and say it looks slow so it must be!!11!!!!"

1. So have many characters in fiction.

You say that as if anybody in fiction could, no seriously, what the **** is your argument supposed to be here?

2. Force lightning has not killed anyone save caused the death of Vader due to his shitty suit.

The only people it's been used on (in the films at least) are other Jedi and Sith

3. No, he isn't. Anakin didn't need to rely on his suit for life then but now he clearly does so even force lightning caused his eventual death due to it being s liability.

So Yoda's less durable than Anakin now?

Obi is not just as strong. That's ridiculous. We see Obi is clearly not as strong as grievous. He can't go toe to toe with him physically but he can do so with Anakin.

Obi deflected Grievous' sabers, if Grievous was much stronger, Obi wouldn't have been able to stop his sabers

We go by what we see. At no point did a billion clones ever take on Jedi. You're exaggerating numbers and outright lying.

The Clone Army consisted of hundreds of billions of troops throughout the galaxy

This feat wasn't hypersonic. We have seen them in live films and it takes many seconds. All supported and makes sense despite your worship of this feat.

Please state where I said it was hypersonic. Actually don't even bother, because I never said it was

Point is just because they talk during something, doesn't mean a feat didn't happen in a short time, unless according to you Superman and Flash are subsonic because they converse while they run, even though they have MFTL feats

Give the episode numbers so I can rewatch to verify your claims.

>demands proof off me
>gives absolutely no proof whatsoever when asked of him

You're a ****ing hypocrite

All feats timing matters. Facts matter. You argue you can select certain feats while dismissing others. That's bias and fanboyism.

Still crying bias, then again, let's face it, it's not like you have any real refutation of any of the feats brought against you, just crying "but low end showings count as valid evidence too!", which you know, they don't

Originally posted by StealthRanger
So, what are they exactly

Nope

The lightning killed Vader you dumb shit

Caine can fight toe to toe with a guy who can deflect lasers from close range, survive near contact detonations from heavy laser cannons, match a guy who can easily TK a massive space shuttle, etc?

"He crushed an AT-AT but that doesn;t mean he can't force crush a human!" or "He can only use the force in x extremely specific ways!"

Your argument may as well be "Yoda never lifted a teacup with the force, so he can't do that even though he's lifed an X-Wing"

Hey quanchi, we never saw Vader sit down onscreen, bet he can't do that either according to you, right?

"I still don't know what talking is a free action is"

Well if said people can pose a threat to Jedi, then they clearly aren;t

I accept your concession

"He didn't do that every single fight he ever appeared in so he's not allowed to do it"

You're not even trying

By all feats, we mean feats that are actually indicative of speed (ie. travelling many kilometers in a second, punching someone thousands of times a second or punching someone in the span of a microsecond), indeed, not "pick any random "feat" and say it looks slow so it must be!!11!!!!"

You say that as if anybody in fiction could, no seriously, what the **** is your argument supposed to be here?

The only people it's been used on (in the films at least) are other Jedi and Sith

So Yoda's less durable than Anakin now?

Obi deflected Grievous' sabers, if Grievous was much stronger, Obi wouldn't have been able to stop his sabers

The Clone Army consisted of hundreds of billions of troops throughout the galaxy

Please state where I said it was hypersonic. Actually don't even bother, because I never said it was

Point is just because they talk during something, doesn't mean a feat didn't happen in a short time, unless according to you Superman and Flash are subsonic because they converse while they run, even though they have MFTL feats

>demands proof off me
>gives absolutely no proof whatsoever when asked of him

You're a ****ing hypocrite

Still crying bias, then again, let's face it, it's not like you have any real refutation of any of the feats brought against you, just crying "but low end showings count as valid evidence too!", which you know, they don't

Yes, you did.

No the suit not working killed him. The force lightning shorted out the suit but he took his mask off which killed him. Context.

Caine has superior feats than these. Once the clips are up I'll post them. Obi didn't nor has anyone use to to crush another being so who cares. He didn't do so like you argued a post ago.

No. You can't apply heir powers in any manner not previously seen as the end all be all debating tactic. You aren't open for anything other than force crush instantly without one single example in the extensive Star Wars lore.

I know how these characters act within a reasonable time frame. All force crush feats take a decent of time save the based found out padme was dead scene.

Clearly aren't what ?

Your ignorance is canon.

Yes, they can run down a hallway that fast. At no point did I deny any evidence. When they fight they don't use that speed. Just because usaine bolt can run faster than Bruce Lee that doesn't mean he's far quicker in a fight. Obi ran that fast but his fighting reflexes were on Jango's level.

That it isn't extraordinary by any means.

And has not killed them. Blasters have.

They are around the same but I'd favor anakin due to being younger.

Sabers doesn't matter due to strength. Obi can kick anakin fine but he can't trade blows of a physical exchange with Grievous.

We don't see that a buiollion took on a Jedi. Cite your source that they number in the billions.

If they talk and say thirty words it isn't an instant feat because they don't talk that fast. We also see all the other feats take well over generally ten seconds. That's a long time for a character named Caine to run wild with.

I can give you the time of the film where the feats take place. Can you watch it to verify my claims ? That's the difference. I didn't say post the clips I said give me the episode.

Saying the word low means subjective. I deal in facts and don't deny anything because unlike you I'm objective and don't predetermine what counts and what does not count. Sign of a shitty debater.