Originally posted by Sinious
Nothing then? Nothing that says Revan was already planning on utterly crushing the Republic before he encountered Vitiate?
The reason why is pretty obvious: to wage war on the Republic.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Considering Revan didn't plan, nor tried, on "utterly crushing" the Republic after Vitiate, nah. 😬
Though we know Revan planned, and assembled, a massive army loyal specifically to him - not the Republic.
Lol
The reason why is pretty obvious: to wage war on the Republic.
Its really not. And even if he planned on attacking the Republic, he would still do it cause he believed he could keep the galaxy safe unlike the Jedi he considered as pacifists.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
*looks around* Sounds pretty good to me. You are bitching on how Revan didn't try to single-handily fight Vitiate, yet he tried that at SOR, and you are bitching about that too.
Hell, Revan saw that Vitiate would destroy "all of existence." It's not my fault nothing satisfies your unrealistic, non-existent pacifist Revan who doesn't believe in mass sacrifice. 👆
I never suggested he try to single-handedly fight him, he had a million options to prevent the ritual. Instead of trying anything sane he immediately jumped to mass genocide and called it a day.
When the shit did I say anything about pacifism? I am not a pacifist. Believing that murdering billions of people is wrong is not about pacifism. What I'm saying is that Foundry Revan was insane and evil and insanely evil. His plan was monstrous on a level he never demonstrated before or after. If he would have gone that far at another point then he didn't show it, like I said he showed mercy to the Mando's. And like I've repeatedly said, his plan wouldn't have worked and probably would have just facilitated the ritual in the first place.
And also we know that he was already a nutter with a split personality at this point, so he literally was insane.
Originally posted by NephthysShouldn't we be comparing Foundry Revan to Revan Reborn as per the Revan novel? Even after having his memories restored, Revan didn't appear the kind of person to advocate genocide, given that he believed himself to be a Jedi.
Yeah no, Revan's plan with the Foundry was way worse than his actions in the Mando Wars and was insanely monstrous beyond reason.Mando Revan merely disarmed the surviving Mandalorians and let them go. Foundry Revan was a cartoon supervillian style lunatic.
Originally posted by FreshestSliceWell I suppose I can't expect the opinion to be the same in America... interesting.
They were completely justified because if we had not used them, an invasion would have killed far more. The only thing that could them not justified would be that we pussed out on making them drop their Emperor.
I suppose its not my place - nor is this the place - to question your morality, but I certainly wouldn't agree.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't something I've ever given much thought or study to but did they really need to drop them specifically on cities? Couldn't the same effect be gotten by wiping out a military base or a fleet or something?
As to Beni, you do know the British government approved as well yes? The Isles always like to forget that little detail. No one wants to work with the Russians, which would almost definitely be required to invade Japan.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't think one needs to be well versed in the contexts to conclude the genocide of innocent civilians in any situation is... well wrong.I feel like this isn't relevant so uh, Revan totally wouldn't have done that...
I doubt it as well, but I'm not sure if it's just because Revan is too smart and practical to do something like that or if he's actually above that shit.
Also is this just the fanfictions talking or did even Darth Revan get pissed off when Malak bombed Telos?
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No. The point in dropping the bombs was to make the Japanese people be unwilling to continue the war. Basically what hippies and weed did to Vietnam. It also served as a warning to the Soviets that America was willing to do anything to "defend" itself against them, even when we were "allies." Fighting Japan wasn't the point. Their military was already done.As to Beni, you do know the British government approved as well yes? The Isles always like to forget that little detail. No one wants to work with the Russians, which would almost definitely be required to invade Japan.
It would have served as adequate warning and as a demonstration for the destructive power of the bombs. If they didn't surrender then it'd be more justifiable to nuke the cities.
Originally posted by FreshestSliceMy country does not dictate my morals lol. Neither do I hold my self accountable for what the country I live in has done in the past. I would have opposed it then and I oppose it now.
No. The point in dropping the bombs was to make the Japanese people be unwilling to continue the war. Basically what hippies and weed did to Vietnam. It also served as a warning to the Soviets that America was willing to do anything to "defend" itself against them, even when we were "allies." Fighting Japan wasn't the point. Their military was already done.As to Beni, you do know the British government approved as well yes? The Isles always like to forget that little detail. No one wants to work with the Russians, which would almost definitely be required to invade Japan.
I get the ends justify the means business, but in the words of Luke Skywalker:
"There are times when the end justifies the means. But when you build an argument based on a whole series of such times, you may find that you've constructed an entire philosophy of evil."
I feel like that is the case here, considering we are now extrapolating this incident to form a practical norm that more or less equates to "genocide is OK if it serves a greater good." That's not a philosophy I can get behind.
Originally posted by NephthysDarth Revan and perhaps even Mando Revan would have justified it if he really thought it would rectify the situation, but neither would be naive enough to 1. think they could succeed 2. think it would actually solve the problem, when the Sith Emperor was actual threat.
I doubt it as well, but I'm not sure if it's just because Revan is too smart and practical to do something like that or if he's actually above that shit.Also is this just the fanfictions talking or did even Darth Revan get pissed off when Malak bombed Telos?
But Revan Reborn? As I said he identified himself as a Jedi, the only way I can see him justify that kind of action is through insanity, its totally opposed to every aspect of Jedi teaching and basic morals tbh. And indeed, he called himself a Jedi aboard the Foundry, ergo he was insane.
Well Kreia actually claims that Revan actually gave the order, to send a message to the Jedi, but Carth says that Revan had nothing to do with it.
I believe Kreia tbh, I doubt Revan would just let Malak do that if he didn't want it.
Mission also says it was all Malak. Personally I doubt Revan would order that just to send a message, he wanted the Republic in-tact and Revan's not that wasteful and pointlessly evil. Malak was rebellious as well and did challenge him to a duel at some point. We also know he didn't give a shit and was willing to genocide planets.
Its probably just fanfiction that Revan cut his jaw off over Telos, but thats the story I always figured.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
My country does not dictate my morals lol. Neither do I hold my self accountable for what the country I live in has done in the past. I would have opposed it then and I oppose it now.
I get the ends justify the means business, but in the words of Luke Skywalker:"There are times when the end justifies the means. But when you build an argument based on a whole series of such times, you may find that you've constructed an entire philosophy of evil."
I feel like that is the case here, considering we are now extrapolating this incident to form a practical norm that more or less equates to "genocide is OK if it serves a greater good." That's not a philosophy I can get behind.
As for the Revan thing with Telos, Mission and Canderous both say Malak bombed Telos. The only one who says otherwise is Kreia.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
How is the Imperial population "half a galaxy?" He only targeted that with specifically Sith-blood.