I like this evidence of ignorance is bliss that is available in this thread, if you had any idea what the Imperial High Command was considering the day Nagasaki and Hiroshima were nuked then you would know given another month or so they would have just surrendered near unconditionally anyway.
Here is a fun fact for you: A main reason the Americans wouldn't reach terms in the repeated previous attempts of surrender by Nippon was because each time they would not give up the Imperial family. Infact it reached the point where the final two conditions of surrender by Japan in their second to last attempt was:
1.We won't give up the Imperial family.
2.We want to maintain a fighting force to defend ourselves should the Russians or even Chinese invade later.
Washington would not agree to those terms and a week later wiped out hundreds of thousands of people. After that they ended up allowing Japan both of those things anyway. Two nukes for two conditions the Americans allowed anyway, a massive warcrime I assure you if the boot was on the other foot.
There was nothing justifiable about the nuclear attacks on Japan, nor the infernos in Tokyo, nor the bombing of Dresden or London. Trying to justify those acts is simply allowing yourself to eat propaganda when the evidence is right out there.
A better question you may want to ask yourself FreshestSlice is why the good ol' US of A has never paid for the heinous crimes committed by itself against other nations. Crimes still being perpetrated to this day.
However this is a Star Wars debate, so I'll end my two cents here.
Well, it depends.
All versions of Sidious>Vitiate in sabers.
ROTJ Sidious=Vitiate in the Force. ROTS and TPM lack sufficient experience, DE is superior.
ROTS Sidious only beats Vitiate if he can close to melee. Which, being faster then Vitiate, he might well be able to do. And if Vitiate is stronger then this version in the Force, it's by relatively little.
So...I dunno. ROTS Sidious has to make Vitiate hug a lightsaber, but with his full speed, he can probably close fast enough to do it.
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Well, it depends.All versions of Sidious>Vitiate in sabers.
ROTJ Sidious=Vitiate in the Force. ROTS and TPM lack sufficient experience, DE is superior.ROTS Sidious only beats Vitiate if he can close to melee. Which, being faster then Vitiate, he might well be able to do. And if Vitiate is stronger then this version in the Force, it's by relatively little.
So...I dunno. ROTS Sidious has to make Vitiate hug a lightsaber, but with his full speed, he can probably close fast enough to do it.
RotS Sidious makes Vitiate hug lightsaber for slim majority. RotJ+ Sidious Force-storms his a$$./ thread.
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Well, it depends.All versions of Sidious>Vitiate in sabers.
ROTJ Sidious=Vitiate in the Force. ROTS and TPM lack sufficient experience, DE is superior.ROTS Sidious only beats Vitiate if he can close to melee. Which, being faster then Vitiate, he might well be able to do. And if Vitiate is stronger then this version in the Force, it's by relatively little.
So...I dunno. ROTS Sidious has to make Vitiate hug a lightsaber, but with his full speed, he can probably close fast enough to do it.
Originally posted by Stigma
👆RotS Sidious makes Vitiate hug lightsaber for slim majority. RotJ+ Sidious Force-storms his a$$./ thread.
These assessments are based on half-truths and lack of proper understanding of Vitiate's characteristics and power.
The outcome depends upon the incarnation of Vitiate in question. If we are considering mortal or corporeally immortal incarnations of Vitiate, then Darth Sidious stands a chance at striking them down [1 on 1]. However, Sidious can loose in these confrontations as well.
And if we are considering Vitiate as a being of pure dark side energy like on Ziost, then Sidious can do nothing but await his demise. This incarnation of Vitiate will atomize any Force-user.
/thread.
Originally posted by FreshestSliceFair enough, although that wasn't really my point.
Not the point, you implied that because I was American, I see the atomic bomb dropping as justified, or at least colored my view. I see it as pointless. Not because of the people who died, because many more would have died given an invasion, but because of the terms of surrender, which included Japan giving up their Emperor, something we didn't go through with. It was a waste of money and effort.
And in a black in white world like a galaxy far, far away, such logic has merits. It doesn't here. Not that this discussion should be going on mind you.I think moral principles can be universally applied tbh. Not that the world the post-ROTJ universe portrayed as at all black and white, if anything the plots was posited on blurred boundaries. But I won't press the point.
A-bomb droppings aren't genocide. And considering what Revan wanted to do was wipe out half a galaxy worth of people, instead of a a little over a hundred thousand, I don't find it comparableMy point was Ant extrapolated it to justify Revan's indeed, genocide. Its merely an escalation, the principles are identical.
As for the Revan thing with Telos, Mission and Canderous both say Malak bombed Telos. The only one who says otherwise is Kreia.Indeed, but all they know is that Malak was commanding the fleet, they don't have any privy knowledge. Kreia understood Revan more than anyone else, and her reasoning is sound:
Atris: "It was always intended for the Jedi to retreat to Telos should Dantooine be attacked—taking all their lore with them. We could not allow the tragedy at Ossus to happen again."
Kreia: "Such an act marked Telos for destruction. It is why the Sith came here, though the fleet commanders did not know why. It is why Revan ordered its destruction to mark the beginning of the Jedi Civil War. It was a message that there would be no place for the Jedi to retreat, to hide."
Though it is admittedly, cut content. But I doubt Darth Revan would have been against in on moral principle.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Correct. Because Vitiate ****ed him up.
Foundry Revan wasn't Revan Reborn.
Originally posted by Angelalex242
You're overrating that 'pure dark side energy' thing. He remains mortal, even for the Ziost incident. He didn't suddenly get elevated to Ones Tier.
Here:
The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
You understand what mortality is? A living biological being (e.g. a human being).
On Ziost, Vitiate is depicted without a form and his composition is manifestation of pure dark side energy, an immortal ghost.
---
The Ones aren't immortal either, they just have extremely long lives. But Father was aging and dying. Though how much of their life-span was Mortis's doing, is a subject that needs exploration. Because time seemed to pass too slow inside Mortis in comparison to the rest of the galaxy.