Originally posted by SelenialMeh I don't think that's true. Kreia was the one who was able to recognise the styles of others and respond with the perfect counter, due to shatterpoint. The Exile was just a very quick learner, because the bonds she established with others, considering that she shared a bond with Kreia she's merely taking Kreia's evaluations, gaining insta knowledge of those concepts, and turning it against her opponent.
Meetra's wound allows her to mirror and perfect her opponents style, she mastered all 7 forms of Lightsaber combat to levels that astounded council members.
However Kreia isn't here, so she lacks that advantage.
She has the strength advantage, the speed advantage, a major form advantage and what is basically an in depth knowledge of her opponents style. She has Echani battle precognition that simply adds to the almost endless list of reasons she wins.Considering ROTJ Luke matched Vader's strength blow for blow, I'd hardly say she has a strength advantage. Luke also has very impressive speed feats also. And considering that he has been described as Vader's equal in lightsaber combat, and in their duel on the Death Star pushed Vader to his limits, I would also conclude that Luke has the advantage in skill (and probably overall Force strength for that matter.)
Altogether Luke has a strong chance of winning this.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Swtor didn't even exist when that guide was written. Swtor Jedi are made clear to basically be a better version of the Kotor Jedi. They are much larger, better equipped and better trained.
Doesn't matter. KotOR campaign guide is canon until otherwise directly contradicted. Which hasn't happened yet.
KotOR Jedi > SWTOR Jedi
It's contradicted by the fact that the Swtor Jedi are an improved version of the Kotor Jedi. And like I said, those quotes cannot match the fact that the Swtor Jedi are many times the size of the positively crippled, half-our-jedi-turned-to-the-darkside Kotor order, they have more advanced technology, lightsaber construction and are better equipped with actual battle armor and other gizmo's and they have improved their techniques and training through rediscovered teachings.
The Swtor order would annihilate the Kotor order and you'd pretty much have to be nuts to say otherwise.
Technically I could argue they are the same era so those quotes apply to them as well.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
To be fair the statement isn't exactly absolute:"Even more so than the Clone Wars, these are the days of the Jedi in their prime."
The PT Order has already been recognised as the golden age of the Jedi, the KOTOR campaign guide is just claiming its goldener, so what can't SWTOR being goldener still?
Tbh that quote is also BS, considering it contradicted GL who said the prime of the Jedi was the PT era...so...that quote doesn't really hold anything.
Sourcebooks/Guides can have wrong information folks, they aren't infailable.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because the writers of KotOR and TOR are the same people, but they have said nothing to that effect?
Well they've said there's millions of Sith, one would expect millions of Jedi.
I guess though we'll roll with "that sourcebook has been updated", as per LeGenD's logic, since when I contacted authors who worked on SWTOR, they numbered the Sith in the thousands...
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Tbh that quote is also BS, considering it contradicting GL who said the prime of the Jedi was the PT era...so...that quote doesn't really hold anything.
I struggle to care what George says anymore, if I'm honest. He says he doesn't acknowledge the existence of the EU, so why should what he says be applied to it?
Originally posted by Selenial
Well they've said there's millions of Sith, one would expect millions of Jedi.I guess though we'll roll with "that sourcebook has been updated", as per LeGenD's logic, since when I contacted authors who worked on SWTOR, they numbered the Sith in the thousands...
Originally posted by Selenial
I struggle to care what George says anymore, if I'm honest. He says he doesn't acknowledge the existence of the EU, so why should what he says be applied to it?
Yeah he doesn't acknowledge is so...that's why he clearly pulled in EU stuff into the main canon.
But this isn't about what he said, it's about the canon levels. Which the Sourcebooks fall under C and anything as per GL would be G so...G > C...therefore the Sourcebook is inaccurate.
Originally posted by FreshestSliceMeh, I don't know. That said it has been stated that the Jedi Order lost a lost of their accumulated knowledge and teaching as a result of the Sacking of Coruscant, and their training suffered as a result...
Because the writers of KotOR and TOR are the same people, but they have said nothing to that effect?
However they posit the KOTOR era's superiority on the basis that they have been fighting hordes of Mandalorians and Sith, but the SWTOR era has been doing that for thirty years, and have had 300 years of peace to build on knowledge and teaching.
It only makes logical sense that they would be better, and as I say the statement isn't absolute.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It's contradicted by the fact that the Swtor Jedi are an improved version of the Kotor Jedi. And like I said, those quotes cannot match the fact that the Swtor Jedi are many times the size of the positively crippled, half-our-jedi-turned-to-the-darkside Kotor order, they have more advanced technology, lightsaber construction and are better equipped with actual battle armor and other gizmo's and they have improved their techniques and training through rediscovered teachings.The Swtor order would annihilate the Kotor order and you'd pretty much have to be nuts to say otherwise.
Technically I could argue they are the same era so those quotes apply to them as well.
So you're arguing that your opinion > canon fact. Ok.
Edit: it's also referring to before the Sith War.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
"My opinions," is so many less words to type, Neph. Save us all the trouble.
👆
Originally posted by ares834
So you're arguing that your opinion > canon fact. Ok.
Suggest to me how the Kotor Jedi could possibly be better based on the information we know about both order's.
I'm not arguing my opinion. Bioware created Kotor and that sourcebook and then they also created the Swtor period and made numerous aspects of that times Jedi stronger than the Kotor era's. Furthermore, the whole frigging point of Kotor is that the Jedi are on the brink of ruin. They failed, they were split in half by Revan and then lost most of their remaining numbers in the war to death or further corruption. By Kotor 2 they were almost entirely wiped out. The Swtor Jedi are massive, united, in the midst of a renaissance and are beating a massive Sith Empire on the battlefield.
I know that it's popular to hate on the swtor era, but this is pretty inarguable.
Originally posted by ares834
It's better because it's directly stated to be the best.Also, like I said, it's referring to before the Sith War not after Revan divides the order again.
It isn't and you know that it isn't. Offer actual reasons please, because we all know the Swtor era would crush the Kotor one logically speaking.
You mean Exar Kun's war? That order was still much weaker than the Swtor order. Even outside of their massive numbers advantage, the swtor era is equipped with advanced battle-armor, superior shield generator tech and improved lightsaber designs. And they're so battle-hardened that even their padawans have more combat experience than the average veteran soldier AND they have more experience fighting Sith.