Meetra Surik vs. ROTJ Luke Skywalker (lightsabers only)

Started by ares8348 pages

It is an actual reason though. It's the best damn reason in fact and is, frankly, inarguable unless you believe your opinion is more important than canon fact.

Also, Exar Kun's war is also referred to as the Sith War.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Such as?

I know everyone vouches for her haxing force powers. "10/10 BEST DRAIN, DRAIN OF THE YEAR!"

When in reality, it isn't impressive in the slightest, and there's no guarantee lesser characters couldn't replicate it.


I have never hyped Darth Traya to extreme levels and I have been among the critics who argued for a long time that she cannot just pwn everybody with her greatest powers. But credit where due, Traya's proficiency in the use of Force Drain powers is really impressive, proved by her demonstration against 3 Jedi Masters of note.

It shall be kept in mind that Force Drain powers are among the most difficult to master and utilize in combat situations. Even Darth Bane wasn't able to use Force Drain powers for combat purposes without drawing on the power of a nexus. And Darth Vader haven't demonstrated aptitude for these powers.

"Meetra" (I hate that name) was nerfed pretty hard and nothing she did in the book says she'd have a shot against Vader in pure sabers. That said, Luke was riding a dark side boost when he bested his father, so that wasn't really an indicator of his skills in a normal fight.

So in this battle I say Exile wins on sheer experience, unless Luke gets really pissed and taps into his rage buff.

Meetra wouldn't have a shot against Vader in pure sabers regardless.

She would based on her Kotor 2 persona.

In some sense, yes. On the other hand, KOTOR 2 is generally an upscaled version of the rest of the SW universe, but with the same hierarchy. That is, the ancient sith such as Tulak Hord are far greater than Avellone!Meetra, but in Avellone's world, the ancient sith are galaxy-shaping masterminds/deities. Case in point, Avellone has Vader and Sidious>Nihilus, so how he'd depict those two would be far different than the rest of their material. In the same way, Revan!Meetra is still far weaker than Hord, just on a much different scale. Avellone Meetra is also much weaker than Avellone!Revan, but again, on a different scale.

TL;DR, KOTOR 2 Exile is the same as Meetra, in all actuality. Vader slaughterfest tbh

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Meh I don't think that's true. Kreia was the one who was able to recognise the styles of others and respond with the perfect counter, due to shatterpoint. The Exile was just a very quick learner, because the bonds she established with others, considering that she shared a bond with Kreia she's merely taking Kreia's evaluations, gaining insta knowledge of those concepts, and turning it against her opponent.

However Kreia isn't here, so she lacks that advantage.Considering ROTJ Luke matched Vader's strength blow for blow, I'd hardly say she has a strength advantage. Luke also has very impressive speed feats also. And considering that he has been described as Vader's equal in lightsaber combat, and in their duel on the Death Star pushed Vader to his limits, I would also conclude that Luke has the advantage in skill (and probably overall Force strength for that matter.)

Altogether Luke has a strong chance of winning this.

She becomes highly adept at the Ataru lightsaber form by meeting Zez-Kai Ell

"Perhaps exile has been good to you indeed - it has certainly not dulled your instincts, nor the speed at which you learn." - Zez-Kai Ell

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Whether in friendship or in battle, you learn the lightsaber stance Ataru after meeting with Zez-Kai Ell. This stance is perfect for one-on-one battles, like the duel you just survived.

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords: Prima Official Game Guide

-------------

She becomes highly adept at the Shien lightsaber form through meeting Vrook:

"Hmmm... I don't know how you learnt that so quickly. Still, your form is sloppy. Keep practicing to tighten it up, and you'll be fine."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Whether you ally with Jedi Master Vrook or fight him, you learn a new lightsaber form, Shien, during your encounter. This form improves your defense and makes critical strikes more potent.

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords: Prima Official Game Guide

She masters the Juyo form through meeting Master Kavar:

"Excellent! I'm impressed with how quickly you've mastered this form. I always knew you were gifted." - Kavar

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

"There are times when you want to overwhelm a particular opponent quickly. For these situations, use the Juyo form. Do not get carried away using this form, particularly against Dark Jedi. The ferocity required to use this form leaves one vulnerable to enemy Force powers." - Kavar

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

By mastering Form VII: Juyo we know she must be a master of multiple other lightsaber forms:

Only high-level masters of multiple forms can achieve and control the ultimate discipline known as Form VII.

Source: Insider #62: Fightsaber

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Anyway, as for this thread, Luke stomps.

Luke may well win but it's in no manner a stomp.

Nah it's not close.

Meetra Surik is better than almost every Jedi Vader has defeated, she is not some weakling like everybody is making out. She puts up a good but losing fight.

👆

Originally posted by AncientPower
Meetra Surik is better than almost every Jedi Vader has defeated, she is not some weakling like everybody is making out. She puts up a good but losing fight.

Never said she was a weakling. Just that she isn't a match for Luke.

Originally posted by ares834
Anyway, as for this thread, Luke stomps.

Riiiight. She gets stomped by ROTJ Luke but isn't a weakling?

Yep. 👆

There is a leap in logic there, better yet instead of clinging to Carthage's sole lifeline which is the Vader duel, taking a look at opponents Luke has fought even after this is quite telling, the likes of Lumiya and more have all given Luke a red ass.

The idea that Surik isn't good enough to give Luke a good fight when plenty of lesser characters have is pretty ludicrous.

That "sole lifeline" is pretty much RotJ Luke's premier feat.

Which is great, but we also have a series of saber duels where Luke fails to 'stomp' as you say, his competition. There is no reason to assume he would do so against a better opponent than most of the ones he has fought.

And we also got him surpassing Vader. Considering how large a role emotional state plays in these duels I argue characters dueling at their best not their worst. It's why I'm not bringing up the Exile's abysmal showing against Nyriss.