Originally posted by Galan007
Lol? This was NOT a "casual" punch from Vegeta:He became visibly pissed when Trunks actually managed a glancing blow, and punched Trunks like he would an enemy. Given the power Vegeta was packing during the Buu saga, to say that the same punch would not have incapacitated the Androids(at the very least) is to drastically lowball Vegeta, imo. By the end of the Cell saga he had become SEVERAL times more powerful than the Androids--and Buu saga Vegeta>Cell saga Vegeta, so...
Every person Vegeta fought in the Buu Saga he fought with intent to kill. He also put a lot more effort into knocking Goku out while he was distracted than the hit against Trunks. Vegeta was not hitting Trunks with that much force on a reflex. For comparison this is what Vegeta was hitting at when trying to kill Goku.
It's Goku doing the hitting but the two are more or less equal at the time(sans SSJ3 of course). My point is that Vegeta was trying to knock Trunks away, not kill him. Given his "oops" he probably didn't even mean to hurt Trunks.
Originally posted by Galan007
We both know those blasts were completely different. The blast you mentioned barely singed Gotenks' clothing. Conversely, the blast Trunks fired at #18 created a rather large explosion:C'mon, don't lowball.
I'm not lowballing. I'm using a ki blast from a heat of the moment move done without thinking(Trunks uses his left hand when he'd made a conscious choice not to earlier) to one that is significantly more powerful(though as you have said multiple times, it isn't Trunks' full power).
Just like how a punch thrown in the heat of the moment(when he'd not been attacking at all) will logically lack the power of a punch meant to kill or even seriously harm.
Originally posted by Galan007
Not true. The boys mentioned that #18 used to be more powerful than Goku/Vegeta, and as such, they weren't going to underestimate her. However, if they didn't think their ki blasts would have been able to harm her, they wouldn't have consciously suppressed the blast to make sure she didn't get hurt.#18's own reaction to the blast tells us all we need to know:
If they aren't underestimating her then they aren't going to hold back a massive amount of power. Trunks is specifically not trying to kill her but he is almost certainly trying to hurt her. Because otherwise there is no point to the Ki blast.
Eh my copy doesn't have her say it is dangerous. She says "in that case...I better end this quickly!" But that is playing semantics. And while she reacted to their blast that way it is important to note that Goten and Trunks similarly dodged her attack to get out of the way. She can certainly harm them.
Originally posted by Galan007
I know. I said that. noneThose panels were simply meant to demonstrate Trunks acting in a 'bloodlusted' capacity. Obviously I'm not comparing the boys to Fat Buu. srsly
I know you said that sir. Was just agreeing with you. 😛
Oh Trunks and Goten are massively strong when they are mad. That is non-negotiable. But they are also stupid kids and being half blooded Saiyans seem to lack talent for fighting, instead compensating with sheer power(note how they underestimate Buu, Future Trunks failed to see the failure in his USSJ mode, and Goten being able to generate enough Ki to go SSJ and shoot blasts but not be able to fly). For instance I don't disagree that they would beat 19 and 20. But I do think that Gero would be able to hide, wait for a ki blast, absorb it, then hide again. Trunks and Goten aren't intelligent fighters. They are inventive and unpredictable at times. But they are also very dumb(see where they counted on Buu to let them fuse).
I also wouldn't take Gohan's showing against Buu compared to Trunks' to mean something. Gohan had fought with Dabura and previously already been hit with an attack by Buu(the same kind that knocked Dabura out for a bit). He's pretty weakened by that point.
Originally posted by Galan007
This is how the Daizenshuu defines FPSSJ:So Gotenks/Trunks were FPSSJ, according to the official/canon definition of the form. 👆
Gotten rid of their wild personality huh?
Keep in mind how Goku and Gohan, the two most noteworthy FPSSJs since we see them doing it most, trained it. They stayed as Super Saiyans. One translation I read said they only stopped it when they slept and another didn't have that. Picnics, going to Namek, Dragonball hunting, driving the car, and so on. The two were never not transformed and they were completely calm and relaxed. The only time it stopped was when Cell killed people.
Trunks and Goten couldn't have done that. They couldn't stay in Super Saiyan mode for days upon days. The former because his dad didn't even know he could be a SSJ(which logically means Bulma probably didn't know as she never told him) and the latter because Chi-Chi outright forbade him from transforming(and we know he never did so around Gohan until it was tournament training time). They don't have the time to get used to the form. Also they deliberately got out of the form when they neared Majin Buu for the first time so they wouldn't be detected. But if Vegeta is to be believed then a FPSSJ is indistinguishable from their normal form unless they make a conscious effort to flex their power.
Also both Goten and Trunks are surprised that there is a form surpassing SSJ(when they are training in the ROSAT). If the Cell Saga is to be believed the chain of logic for discovery goes SSJ->ASSJ->USSJ->FPSSJ->SSJ2. Gohan got to skip 2 and 3 because Goku pointed out their flaws but Vegeta and Trunks both went to ASSJ and USSJ. Regardless Trunks and Goten seem surprised that SSJ can be surpassed at all which wouldn't make sense if they were Full Powered Super Saiyans. It would honestly surprise me if it ever occurred to them that one could get stronger by just staying Super Saiyan for a while.
I just don't really believe that in addition to becoming Super Saiyans they also became perfect Super Saiyans at the same time. Doesn't add up to me.
