Goten & Trunks vs. The Gero Family...

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Incorrect.

Immediately after(literally) #18 made that "OMFG!!" statement, she used a Kienzan to split Mighty Mask apart, because she knew it would result in an automatic DQ for the boys... After seeing the type of power they could casually generate, she wanted no part of a continued battle--her dumbfounded/awestruck narrative was indicative enough of that.

Err fine lets do this properly. Base Trunks was struggling in 150 Gravity so he turned Super Saiyan.

Base Goku trained 100X gravity before Namek which put him at 32,000 BP without Kao Ken and 180,000 BP max Kao Ken. Even is he went Super saiyan at that stage he would be weaker than Frieza. He needed that Zenkai after getting thrashed by Vegeta/Ginyu Force

So SSJ Trunks is weaker than Final Form Frieza.

Android 18>>>>>Final Form Frieza>>SSJ Trunks

While we are at it Vegeta was training 300X gravity before he went Super Saiyan ands till got pwned by Android 18.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Err fine lets do this properly. Base Trunks was struggling in 150 Gravity so he turned Super Saiyan.

Base Goku trained 100X gravity before Namek which put him at 32,000 BP without Kao Ken and 180,000 BP max Kao Ken. Even is he went Super saiyan at that stage he would be weaker than Frieza. He needed that Zenkai after getting thrashed by Vegeta/Ginyu Force

So SSJ Trunks is weaker than Final Form Frieza.

Android 18>>>>>Final Form Frieza>>SSJ Trunks

Even Vegeta was already in his SSJ state whilst training in the 150x gravity... Yet when Trunks transforms into a SSJ to simply make it easier for him to move around in said gravity, he all of the sudden becomes sub-Freeza-level? Lol.

Screw Goten nearly overwhelming Gohan(who was >>>>> #18 & Freeza.) Screw Trunks nearly overwhelming Vegeta(who was >>>>> #18 & Freeza.) Screw #18 freaking the f*ck out at one of their suppressed blasts. Screw Piccolo being awestruck when they powered up to max. Screw Trunks' cheap-shot-kick doing FAR more to Fat Buu than Gohan's did. Screw the fact that it was almost certainly the first time Trunks had ever trained in heightened gravity, so he likely hadn't acclimated to it yet. Etc.

Yeah, you aren't trying to lowball or anything. 🙄

Originally posted by Galan007
This is about the most ridiculous 'logic' I've seen from anyone here, and it entirely contradicts the PLETHORA of evidence to the contrary.

Even Vegeta was already in his SSJ state whilst training in the 150x gravity... Yet when Trunks transforms into a SSJ to simply make it easier for him to move around in said gravity, he all of the sudden becomes sub-Freeza-level? Lol.

Screw Goten nearly overwhelming Gohan(who was >>>>> #18 & Freeza.) Screw Trunks nearly overwhelming Vegeta(who was >>>>> #18 & Freeza.) Screw #18 freaking the f*ck out at one of their suppressed blasts. Screw Piccolo being awestruck when they powered up to max. Screw Trunks' cheap-shot-kick doing FAR more to Fat Buu than Gohan's did. Screw the fact that it was almost certainly the first time Trunks had ever trained in heightened gravity, so he likely hadn't acclimated to it yet. Etc.

Yeah, you aren't trying to lowball or anything. 🙄

Would you please stop freakin out when I present a case.

The entire SHOCK from everyone can be chalked up to them being kids and already being super saiyan. And remember how Gohan beats the crap out of people when he is genuinely pissed? Well Trunks is a saiyan hybrid just like Gohan and i'm sure seeing Vegeta getting wrecked as Majin would boost that attack (due to saiyan hybrid anger boosts which lead to SSJ2) enough to border SSJ2 power even if for a second.

But an indisputable fact is that Base Trunks was having difficulty at 150g (and even if he wasn't use to it do you see him getting to over 300?) and Base Vegeta was training over 300g in early Android Saga before he went Super Saiyan a few years later. Meaning Super Saiyan Vegeta who got rekt by 18 is stronger than SSJ Kid Trunks.

Unless kid Trunks was ascended or full power. In which case I give up on trying to figure out Buu Saga.

But I still don't see them beating Semi Perfect Cell until after training on the lookout.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Would you please stop freakin out when I present a case.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
The entire SHOCK from everyone can be chalked up to them being kids and already being super saiyan.

Clearly they were awestruck at the sheer amount of raw ki the boys were producing.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
But an indisputable fact is that Base Trunks was having difficulty at 150g

...And that was only 2x more gravity then he'd grown accustomed to a few days prior on King Kai's world.

Trunks, on the other hand, had never trained under increased gravity a day in his life. So he basically went from 1G to 150G--150x more gravity then he's used to. That's going to take some time to get acclimated to, regardless of his PL. In absolutely no way/shape/form does that imply he's sub-Freeza-level, though... Especially given the multitude of feats/statements that put he and Goten FAR above that level. srsly

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Unless kid Trunks was ascended or full power. In which case I give up on trying to figure out Buu Saga.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
But I still don't see them beating Semi Perfect Cell until after training on the lookout.

Stumbled upon this excerpt from a VIZ summary page:

Aside from Goku/Gohan/Vegeta, the boys are referred to as "the strongest heroes on earth!"

This lends to the notion that they were > Piccolo and #18.

Yeah, I'm not sure why this is even a debate, here.

Galan is clearly right. The boys were each a lot stronger than either of the androids. A single, suppressed blast from SSJ Trunks TERRIFIED #18, to the point where she was sweating, and had to dodge the raw ki blast. She didn't even dodge all of SSJ Vegeta's attacks, when she first fought him.

Gohan himself even stated that Goten was nearly STRONGER than he was. And Goten was weaker than Trunks. Sos SSJ Trunks was quite possibly stronger than SSJ Gohan. And if that were the case, then he would be MORE than capable of taking on ANY android, bearing Cell Jr, or Perfect Cell. And he would need SSJ Goten along with him, and it would be a hard battle, but I could definitely see them beating Semi-perfect Cell with a tag-team effort.

But yeah, all in all, Galan's right. And @ the thread, Goten and Trunks reach, and then stop hard at the Cell Jr. It would be a tough fight for the Cell Jr, but it would win against the two.

Heh, this is quickly turning into a Goten/Trunks respect thread, but I came across this excerpt from Goten's bio in Daizenshuu #2, and thought it was worth posting here:

A gifted child who mastered Super Saiyan at a young age.

"By virtue of being Goku's son, Goten posses battle power not the least bit inferior to even Gohan. On top of being able to unleash a startling amount of power in even his normal state, he can easily transform into a Super Saiyan. Furthermore, he merges with Trunks through a technique known as Fusion."

ie. Trunks =/> Goten = Gohan(pre-Kaioshin unlock.) That's a pretty interesting revelation, right there...

They would have a hell of a time getting past #17 and 18...it'd be close.

#16 would take care of them after though.

They are not heating 17 and 18.

Originally posted by Galan007
Stumbled upon this excerpt from a VIZ summary page:

Aside from Goku/Gohan/Vegeta, the boys are referred to as "the strongest heroes on earth!"

This lends to the notion that they were > Piccolo and #18.

From that statement, they'd have a good chance against #16 probably.

Trunks and Goten gave 18 trouble in base form while getting in the way of each other. 50 times boost in a serious fight...

If the Potara Fusion multiplies the users power levels together, what does the Fusion Dance do? Does it just add them together, does it boost it in some other ways? Does it ever say?

Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, this is quickly turning into a Goten/Trunks respect thread, but I came across this excerpt from Goten's bio in Daizenshuu #2, and thought it was worth posting here:

ie. Trunks =/> Goten = Gohan(pre-Kaioshin unlock.) That's a pretty interesting revelation, right there...

That sounds like they are just comparing base forms there. Gohan would still be the most powerful due to SSJ2. But Gohan being weaker than Trunks is ass

Originally posted by Kento
If the Potara Fusion multiplies the users power levels together, what does the Fusion Dance do? Does it just add them together, does it boost it in some other ways? Does it ever say?

Originally posted by juggerman
That sounds like they are just comparing base forms there. Gohan would still be the most powerful due to SSJ2. But Gohan being weaker than Trunks is ass

But yeah, SSJ2 Gohan is obviously >.

Originally posted by Galan007
Goten & Trunks (Buu saga)

[b]VS.

Round 1:
Androids #19 & #20

Round 2:
Androids #17 & #18

Round 3:
Android #16

Round 4:
Semi-Perfect Cell

Round 5:
1 Cell Junior

-Fight takes place on the Sacred World of the Kais.
-The boys are at their peaks.
-They start each Round at full power, and do not hold back.
-No fusion.

How far do they get?

*Note: I do not expect the boys to clear. I gave them such a wide range of opponents, because there tends to be a wide range of opinion regarding their power levels. [/B]

Pre Rosat boys clear up to round 4 but definitely stops at the Cell Junior.
Post Rosat boys became even stronger (even if not by that much) and more experienced in fight, thus I personally think they could give the Cell Jr a hard fight. I'd say 50:50 since they are 2 vs 1.

Clear all. Goten was fighting Gohan evenly in sparring, and after the ROSAT they would be even stronger.

Originally posted by Agusto Pinochet
Clear all. Goten was fighting Gohan evenly in sparring, and after the ROSAT they would be even stronger.

Yeah, but they weren't that much stronger. The only real difference was that they learned SSJ3 while they were fused.

And fighting evenly with a weakened SSJ1 Gohan certainly does NOT make you as powerful as a Cell Jr. SSJ1 Gohan from the Cell saga was weaker than Super Vegeta and Trunks, and they were both weaker than the Cell Jr.'s. Buu saga Gohan was less than HALF as strong as he was during the Cell saga, according to Vegeta.

So Cell Jr. > Super Vegeta > Cell saga MSSJ1 Gohan > Buu saga SSJ1 Gohan >= MSSJ1 Goten.

MSSJ1 Trunks was also more powerful than Goten, and even he was brought to tears by a serious hit from MSSJ1 Vegeta. Super Vegeta would have stomped him, and he was weaker than a Cell Jr.

Gotenks is the only way for Goten or Trunks to beat a Cell Jr. They MIGHT be able to win with teamwork, but it'd be a hell of a fight.

It never says how much stronger they got.. But they were training seriously for months after being powerful as they were never having real training.

Vegeta said he was weaker. I don't remember him saying half as weak. And Gohan still was even with Perfect Cell level Dabura.

Uhm Cell Saga Mssj Gohan = Perfect Cell > Mssj Goku > Super Vegeta.

Trunks was only 'brought to tears' because his dad punched him and so he cried because he wasn't expecting it..and was automatically better when Vegeta said he would take him to the park.

Originally posted by Kento
It never says how much stronger they got.. But they were training seriously for months after being powerful as they were never having real training.

Vegeta said he was weaker. I don't remember him saying half as weak. And Gohan still was even with Perfect Cell level Dabura.

Uhm Cell Saga Mssj Gohan = Perfect Cell > Mssj Goku > Super Vegeta.

Trunks was only 'brought to tears' because his dad punched him and so he cried because he wasn't expecting it..and was automatically better when Vegeta said he would take him to the park.

1. Goten and Trunks were in the Hyperbolic time chamber for one hour. That is the equivalent of 15 days, on the inside. Two weeks. That is not enough time for a noticeable power increase to occur. Again, the only real difference was that they had created new attacks, and learned SSJ3. Along with gaining a mastery of the fusion dance. That is all.

2. I can't find the official english translation, but in it Vegeta said that Gohan had lost over half of his strength. In the unofficial version, he just says that Gohan "isn't even close" to the level he was at when he fought Cell.

3. Uh, that was SSJ2 Gohan. Not MSSJ1 Gohan. SSJ2 Gohan was around equal to Dabura/Perfect Cell. Which makes sense, given that Gohan had lost half of his strength, and SSJ2 is a 2X boost to SSJ1. Which would make SSJ2 Buu saga Gohan equal to his MSSJ1 Cell saga self.

4. That is 100% not true. Trunks was brought to tears because his nose was bloodied after being slugged by Vegeta. His face was even still bruised after he wiped the blood off of his nose.

So... Yeah, he shrugged it off to look cool for his dad, but he was still bloodied by that single punch. So again, given that MSSJ1 Vegeta > MSSJ1 Trunks, that means that Super Vegeta >> MSSJ1 Trunks, which puts a Cell Jr. also well above Trunks.