Karate Kid vs Immortal Hercules H2H

Originally posted by ODG
If I read his feats from The Lightning Saga and Countdown forward, doesn't seem offensive. So what beyond those two storylines suggests that the Batman fight was utter nonsense? And it's already happened in this thread, but I'd rather not mix different timeline Karate Kids and pretend like all their feats are interchangeable or shared.

Originally posted by deathslash
what was really offensive was superman's list. He had batman listed as just one rank lower than val in h2h skill. Either superman was high at the time, or it was complete and utter PIS to appease the batman fanboys. To add to that, IIRC, bruce's first attack that landed on val was nothing more than a street fighting technique.

And he still looked tons better then the space karate fight with 3boot Val.

Both are still lightyears ahead of thr old Brave and the Bold teamups, when Val was struggling with random thugs for some reason. 😱

I'm sure Val does have low showings. But his high end consistent showings just show he wins this fight. Again, he beats down Supergirl level villains while sick and dying. He dodges lightning after being hit with it. He casually redirects a daxamite and tosses him into another solar system. He negates earthquakes by tapping his foot. He damages metal so durable PC Superboy needed the "strength of insanity" just to break it.

He's not going to lose to frickin Hercules.

in this ring scenario, his speed is nullified though. herc could instantly obliterate the ground with a massive shockwave, then thunderclap with near hulk level. regardless, it depends entirely on which val.

He could. I'd argue Val could avoid/roll with a thunderclap the same way he rolls with a Kryptonian level punch though. (Plus, he has his flight ring.)

But even if it worked, using tactics like that against a non super powered mortal might cut against his grain. Low blowing Sentry is one thing, doing it to a guy even his peers mock for having no super powers is another.

don't think i'd buy the second part--herc would just know he has 'super karate', (seriously, can any power be more lame sounding...? lol) so i don't think a thunderclap would be too untoward. and the impact would be pretty hard to roll with....never seen anyone roll with a thunderclap before i don't think. the flight ring would be a problem though. herc would need to pulverize the battlefield and blind val (and himself) with rock dust, then just start heaving sh!t all over the place and get lucky eventually. he's an underrated fighter, and he isn't nearly as stupid as he is at times portrayed (or portrays himself....) i think the ring aids herc in this battle--or hinders val more likely. still, likely depends on which val we're talking about and how exactly you see the battle going down. i don't see speed being a huge factor only because of how i see herc having to fight this match (ie, he wouldn't just stand there and trade blows, imo). just how fast can a flight ring move him, anyway....?

between a thunderclap and a complete dust storm that blinds both of them, not sure how that is going to help too much....if he stayed and fought h2h, depending on which val, herc would lose. but that doesn't mean he has no options here....

Originally posted by cdtm
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111129725/4200293-karate+kid+is+ftl.jpg

Is there a reason Legion-related characters get to share their multiple alternate versions' feats interchangeably here on KMC?

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm sure Val does have low showings. But his high end consistent showings just show he wins this fight. Again, he beats down Supergirl level villains while sick and dying. He dodges lightning after being hit with it. He casually redirects a daxamite and tosses him into another solar system. He negates earthquakes by tapping his foot. He damages metal so durable PC Superboy needed the "strength of insanity" just to break it.

He's not going to lose to frickin Hercules.

Originally posted by ODG
Is there a reason Legion-related characters get to share their multiple alternate versions' feats interchangeably here on KMC?

Which version of Val are we using? I feel Zero Hour and PC has the better feats.

To Leo, Val can fight blinded nearly as well as seeing. But i don't see Val getting around a thunderclap if they are fighting at the same speed.

Originally posted by ODG
Which Karate Kid is this? The Threeboot one?

Is there a reason Legion-related characters get to share their multiple alternate versions' feats interchangeably here on KMC?

A fair question.

And no idea. To be fair, the same thing happens with Superman.

If it was up to me, I'd go with the modern version, but then we'd have to debate if Lightning Saga and PC Val are one and the same.

Originally posted by ODG
Which Karate Kid is this? The Threeboot one?

Is there a reason Legion-related characters get to share their multiple alternate versions' feats interchangeably here on KMC?

The reason why a lot of LoSH maintains all continuity Is because there was less changes to continuity for Legion than any other. Post COIE they specifically came up with the time trapper created pocket universe so that pre COIE Superboy could still exist just to maintain pre crisis continuity post crisis. Hey did make changes to the continuity in the 90's but more back ground story wise. Plus they did the galactic war thing where many members of legion were on different sides and the after effects of the war. Infinite crisis set it back to pre COIE again.

So Lightning Saga is, in fact, THE Pre Crisis Legion?

I know Five Years Later never happened, and that's my favorite Legion era.

Originally posted by cdtm
So Lightning Saga is, in fact, THE Pre Crisis Legion?

I know Five Years Later never happened, and that's my favorite Legion era.

The original pre crisis continuity remained through till about zero hOur. At that point the names and orogins of several Legionares changed and the LoSH universe became a little darker.

The thing that gives the lightning saga away as the rebooted pre COIE continuity is the names, in each of the divergent continuities DC got away from the whole kid, lass, lad naming thing and went back to it with infinite crisis as a shkw of returning to its roots.

Ironically 5 years later is ab I ut the inly alternate continuity I actually liked. Because it explored more in a lot of the characters. If they'd continued down that path I wouldn't have minded a bit

Originally posted by beatboks
That's from pre threeboot. I have the issue somewhere, and yes Mon-el was possessed or some such which meant he was blood lusted. The speed thing however isn't going to play here. The flight ring literally allows you to move as fast as those around you. So in flight (as he was aerobatic ally dodging Mon-el's heat vision) he should match Mon-el in speed

Originally posted by beatboks
The reason why a lot of LoSH maintains all continuity

The crisis apparently didn't effect the Legion or some shit, but you really don't need his pre crisis feats for him to win this, so it's moot. Non pre crisis Val still did the "beat down guy Supergirl has trouble with while sick" and "dodge speed force infused lightning" and all that. He still wins.

I'm sure there are versions out there he could beat. Legion of Super heroes cartoon? Herc totally beats that version of Karate Kid. Recent animated film with Karate Kid and someone else fighting Time Trapper? Herc totally wins that too. Karate Kid as in..Daniel-San? Big win for Herc.

Originally posted by leonidas
in this ring scenario, his speed is nullified though. herc could instantly obliterate the ground with a massive shockwave, then thunderclap with near hulk level. regardless, it depends entirely on which val.

A UFC ring doesn't nullify his speed. He still moves too fast to get hit, and can hit Herc before he does anything. Why would the ring stop this? He doesn't need a huge open field to dodge Herc. He could just stand in place and dodge every punch thrown.

Also, Val could obliterate the ground as well. But this is supposed to be hand to hand fight, which is why I didn't bring that up. I assumed they'd actually be engaging each other..hand to hand. If the only course of action for Herc is "destroy the ring and then thunderclap" it shows why he probably shouldn't be up against a guy like Val in h2h if the strategy is "don't ever ever let him get anywhere near you".

Originally posted by Surtur
The crisis apparently didn't effect the Legion or some shit, but you really don't need his pre crisis feats for him to win this, so it's moot. Non pre crisis Val still did the "beat down guy Supergirl has trouble with while sick" and "dodge speed force infused lightning" and all that. He still wins.

Originally posted by ODG
So he's like Karnak or Mandarin w/o rings or current Shang Chi. All of whom have super high-end feats but you turn around and see them sparring with the likes of Batman, Black Panther and Cap.

Taking only his high-end feats against a D-list character while ignoring everything else isn't exactly inspiring confidence here.

Right, so you need to use his low end feats in order to say he loses? Alrighty. We can ignore all the variety of impressive feats because hey he sparred with Batman.