Karate Kid vs Immortal Hercules H2H

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Its so specific, I find it hard to believe you came up with it in isolation...

I was thinking of something weird that could happen and not something Karate Kid specific, but I wasn't thinking Batman 1 M at all. I did read the Morrison JLA series a long time ago, so I must have known this, but I swear I didn't realize it until after you mentioned it, and I googled it to jog my memory. At first I thought you were referring to something new that I never read: Justice League 3000 series (which I thought was a DC 1M comic, but I guess not). My bad for attributing a Batman 1 M move to KK. I'd like to change it to Daxamite death-grip or w/e. Ha ha, I always joke about octopus-telepathy-martial-arts when I'm watching UFC w/ friends, never realizing I was referencing DC 1 M this whole time.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, tbh, the whole 'he went up against someone who gave supergirl trouble' argument isn't doing much to convince me. which bricks has he defeated? his speed would be nullified if he were blind and choking on the battlefield--something that wouldn't be able to happen in an open area. and if herc discovered he wasn't able to hit him, those are the sorts of tactics he would absolutely undertake. what's he supposed to do--stand there is get hit?

and wasn't there a fight somewhere where supergirl told val he could kick her a 1000 times or something and she'd never feel it? anyway, i'd love to see some scans of val beating down someone of herc's level of strength and durability. something not pre-crisis would be cool to see.

Equus gave Superman trouble too, though. He's basically a brick with near Shaggy Man regen and enough strength to hang with the heavy hitters (He also has angel wing claws which exploit a magic weakness in Superman, but he was clearly physically powerful in his own right.)

Anyways, if we're ommiting pre crisis feats, this version of Val isn't going to have long list, having only existed in Lightning Saga and Countdown. His best feat is probably dodging Flash.

While holding a lightning rod to attract him in speed lightning form back to Earth. Anyone else would have been struck, and his Legion friends apparently fully expected him to either die or get seriously hurt since they asked him why he wasn't hit, to which he responded with a smirk, "I ducked".

No one take KK seriously.

Feats were given for Val, both for pre and post crisis versions. People just made asinine arguments. I've seen PLENTY of threads where "this person is tough because they fought this person" is brought up as legit, but of course in this thread..saying Karate Kid friggin tore apart a guy Supergirl had trouble with while he was sick and dying? Nah, that doesn't count for..reasons! Asinine reasons like "he is c-list" or "oh this doesn't count for this character because on KMC we selectively apply rules to different characters".

Like someone else said, Val post crisis doesn't have a vast amount of feats, and the feats I am mentioning are just off the top of my head, not the only feats he has to his name.

I mean hey he sparred Batman, but he also sparred with Ultra Boy(post crisis) but lets ignore that and just mention Batman when we talk about him sparring.

If anyone's lawballing Val based on the Batman thing, there's two pretty important factors being ignored:

1. Val wasn't in his right mind.

2. He still didn't look much worse against Batman then Superman did in Hush. 😛 (Seriously, they both were ooc, so how is it we dismiss the Superman showing as PIS, and accept Val underperforming.as normal?)

Originally posted by Surtur
Feats were given for Val, both for pre and post crisis versions.

Best leave the discussion to others.

Originally posted by Surtur
Feats were given for Val, both for pre and post crisis versions. People just made asinine arguments. I've seen PLENTY of threads where "this person is tough because they fought this person" is brought up as legit, but of course in this thread..saying Karate Kid friggin tore apart a guy Supergirl had trouble with while he was sick and dying? Nah, that doesn't count for..reasons! Asinine reasons like "he is c-list" or "oh this doesn't count for this character because on KMC we selectively apply rules to different characters".

i....don't know what you're getting all uppity about. first, i'd take exception in any thread, with anyone who tried using the same level of argument that i've seen here. there's nothing 'asinine' about looking for more proof than what has been provided. at all.

the batman stuff--who cares? i don't even know who said anything about bats in this thread. and c-list? who cares? again, i have no idea where or who even said it. you however, are the one claiming he easily beats down one of the top 3 bricks in marvel by, seemingly, using feats from....all over the map. i was simply curious about 2 things (in my first post i even SAID it depended on which version of kk....)--who has he beaten and what version are we using. instead it seems we get ALL versions, and i get 'he beat someone supergirl had trouble with'. i don't even know what 'trouble' means, as it is utterly ill-defined. she's had trouble with LOADS of people, some clearly less powerful than her because, well, that's comics. so i assume you feel kk would as easily crush thor, since he too would be grossly outmatched in terms of speed, yes?

hulk? would he crush hulk? i'm legitimately curious--in marvel who do you think could beat him in h2h for a majority?

Originally posted by leonidas
i....don't know what you're getting all uppity about. first, i'd take exception in any thread, with anyone who tried using the same level of argument that i've seen here. there's nothing 'asinine' about looking for more proof than what has been provided. at all.

the batman stuff--who cares? i don't even know who said anything about bats in this thread. and c-list? who cares? again, i have no idea where or who even said it. you however, are the one claiming he easily beats down one of the top 3 bricks in marvel by, seemingly, using feats from....all over the map. i was simply curious about 2 things (in my first post i even SAID it depended on which version of kk....)--who has he beaten and what version are we using. instead it seems we get ALL versions, and i get 'he beat someone supergirl had trouble with'. i don't even know what 'trouble' means, as it is utterly ill-defined. she's had trouble with LOADS of people, some clearly less powerful than her because, well, that's comics. so i assume you feel kk would as easily crush thor, since he too would be grossly outmatched in terms of speed, yes?

hulk? would he crush hulk? i'm legitimately curious--in marvel who do you think could beat him in h2h for a majority?

The main question as far as I'm concerned:

Do.we get to use Lighning Saga AND Pre Crisis feats?

There's precedence with the New Gods, where you could go all the way back to Lightray farting out suns to slow down Black Racer for feats.

Originally posted by cdtm
The main question as far as I'm concerned:

Do.we get to use Lighning Saga AND Pre Crisis feats?

And if the generalities of their history are too expansive to deal with, offer some particular pre-Crisis feats that you're interested in adding to the discussion and give some issue #s so we can verify they weren't subject to massive retcons.