Originally posted by quanchi112
So it took Vader that long and yet you say that gets him the win ?? Why wouldn't he use the force choke against Obi then ? You honestly are borderline slow to suggest a mere force choke beats Luke.Luke wins just like he did in Rotj. Decisively.
I'm not saying it beats him I'm saying his applications are more sophisticated. You are always putting words into my mouth. I said his application shows more sophistication and greater magnitude. As you daw they were in a close saber lock with no space in between. Also if I was Vader and someone cut my legs and arm off I think I want to kill them with my saber and not my force powers.
Many disagree.
Originally posted by Bashar TegIf you look up the fight on youtube in ROTJ you will hear Luke says those words. Here are the quotes:
i dont recall luke saying anything to suggest that. i remember him telling vader that he wouldnt fight, and that vader would thus have to decide whether or not to kill him, but no statement of any kind to compare/appraise his power.agreed that in a 'fair' (for lack of a better word) saber duel, luke would slice him up.
Luke: Your thoughts betray you, Father. I feel the good in you, the conflict.
Darth Vader: There is no conflict.
Luke: You couldn't bring yourself to kill me before and I don't believe you'll destroy me now.
Darth Vader: You underestimate the power of the Dark Side. If you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny.
Originally posted by carthage
Luke has a chance if he can keep Vader from using telekinesis
👆
Originally posted by DTM
Darth Vader wins. He is the more powerful, more experienced force user here. Luke "won" in ROTJ because Vaders job wasnt to beat him, but to turn him to the dark side. Luke makes him work for it, he is a Skywalker after all, but in the end this fight definitely goes to Vader.
👆
Originally posted by quanchi112
Force choke didn't beat Obi. Slamming him into the railing or whatever did. Context.
Wrong. The Force choke DID beat Obi, because Kenobi was disarmed, helpless and under Dooku's complete control.
Slamming Kenobi just KO'd him.
You have a lot to learn about Context.
Great feat for Dooku though. He's another one who can instantly control Khan's body with a hand gesture.
Originally posted by Kotor3
If you look up the fight on youtube in ROTJ you will hear Luke says those words. Here are the quotes:Luke: Your thoughts betray you, Father. I feel the good in you, the conflict.
Darth Vader: There is no conflict.
Luke: You couldn't bring yourself to kill me before and I don't believe you'll destroy me now.
Darth Vader: You underestimate the power of the Dark Side. If you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny.
none of that proves that vader was more powerful in rotj. luke made it clear that he wasnt going to fight vader.
"i will not turn…and you’ll be forced to kill me."
"i will not fight you"
his whole plan centered around refusing to fight vader as this would be the catalyst to turning to the darkside. even at the end he throws away his lightsaber. it's abundantly clear that luke was referring to vader striking him down unguarded defenseless, not overpowering him.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I'd have to go with a delayed reaction to the shock. Also kenobi is known to have a weak force wall as he is known for getting ragdolled on many occasions. Also Dooku is known for using force lift in conjunction with his force abilities as seen by how he tossed Anakin with lightning with TK in AOTC, how he repeatedly pushed Savage oppres with lightning, also used with force push, how he lifted and chocked the queen in TCW of the slave empire, and how he shocked and levitated Ventress and the nightsisiters in TCW.
i know nothing of TCW so i'll just take your word.
as for dooku-obiwan, obiwans arms and legs are splayed apart a second before he makes an audible gasp and reaches for his throat. it could be surmised that dooku's force levitation leaves his opponent more vulnerable to other attacks.
point is that both explanations are plausible, but neither is provable. but if TCW is admissable, then i'm making a moot point anyway.
Originally posted by Bashar TegI never argued that both were not holding back. However, if you are going to translate Luke’s words in the way you are doing so then yeah it wouldn’t prove that Vader was more powerful. How you came to that translation is beyond me.
none of that proves that vader was more powerful in rotj. luke made it clear that he wasnt going to fight vader."i will not turn…and you’ll be forced to kill me."
"i will not fight you"
his whole plan centered around refusing to fight vader as this would be the catalyst to turning to the darkside. even at the end he throws away his lightsaber. it's abundantly clear that luke was referring to vader striking him down unguarded defenseless, not overpowering him.
Luke referred to their pass fight and current. Clearly he was taking about being defenseless.
Also, what is your definition of power? How do you figure Luke training makes him equal to or more than Vader?
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2I disagree. So at least now you admit force choke has no bearing on this fight. Luke took those guards out with relative ease. Who is the best warrior Vader took out ?
I'm not saying it beats him I'm saying his applications are more sophisticated. You are always putting words into my mouth. I said his application shows more sophistication and greater magnitude. As you daw they were in a close saber lock with no space in between. Also if I was Vader and someone cut my legs and arm off I think I want to kill them with my saber and not my force powers.Many disagree.
Many are lemmings and sheep, boy.
Originally posted by Darth ThorWrong. Obi was ko'd by the force push bit the force choke. If the force choke beat him he'd be dead.
Wrong. The Force choke DID beat Obi, because Kenobi was disarmed, helpless and under Dooku's complete control.Slamming Kenobi just KO'd him.
You have a lot to learn about Context.
Great feat for Dooku though. He's another one who can instantly control Khan's body with a hand gesture.
Ko'ing Hun is the winning. Context.
Dooku needed an opening seconds in the fight and had droid help. You seem to ignore help when it suits you. Khan kills him in a second or less. Watch the scene again, noob.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong. Obi was ko'd by the force push bit the force choke. If the force choke beat him he'd be dead.
Don't be dumb. You don't have to kill someone to beat them.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ko'ing Hun is the winning. Context.
You keep throwing around "context", but you clearly have no idea what it means.
How was Kenobi not beaten when he was being choked and levitated and dropped his weapon, and was completely under Dooku's control?
Did Kenobi still have a chance at that point? Was he any kind of threat at that point? Are you that dense?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Dooku needed an opening seconds in the fight and had droid help. You seem to ignore help when it suits you. Khan kills him in a second or less. Watch the scene again, noob.
What? Dooku was fighting 2 Jedi with Force defenses.
Khan has no chance 😆
Originally posted by Darth ThorI know. Force choke kills whereas the force push into the railing ko'd him hence that defeated him. You're basically retarded at this point.
Don't be dumb. You don't have to kill someone to beat them.You keep throwing around "context", but you clearly have no idea what it means.
How was Kenobi not beaten when he was being choked and levitated and dropped his weapon, and was completely under Dooku's control?
Did Kenobi still have a chance at that point? Was he any kind of threat at that point? Are you that dense?
What? Dooku was fighting 2 Jedi with Force defenses.
Khan has no chance 😆
Yes, he had a chance since he has force powers. Ko'ing Kenobi is what beat him. Force choke needs to be maintained by way of concentration so Dooku had to ok him quickly before Anakin broke his concentration, rookie.
Bane took on two Jedi but you said the droid was an unfair advantage. Hypocrite. The time and the keeping was vital as was his help. Khan kills him. He doesn't need to get close like Anakin and Obi did.
💃
Originally posted by quanchi112
I know. Force choke kills whereas the force push into the railing ko'd him hence that defeated him. You're basically retarded at this point.
What?
He was levitating him. Kenobi was helpless, didn't have a weapon, was choking for his life. Heck Dooku could have just slashed him with his Saber there and then.
How was he not defeated?
Quit crying over the Khan thing and talk some sense.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he had a chance since he has force powers.
Unlike Khan. Who has no Force powers, therfore no chance 😂
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ko'ing Kenobi is what beat him. Force choke needs to be maintained by way of concentration so Dooku had to ok him quickly before Anakin broke his concentration, rookie.
Ah there you go dummy. The reason he had to KO Kenobi was because he was still dealing with ANAKIN.
But as far as Dooku vs Kenobi goes, that choke had him. He was helpless. He'd lost.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Bane took on two Jedi but you said the droid was an unfair advantage. Hypocrite. The time and the keeping was vital as was his help. Khan kills him. He doesn't need to get close like Anakin and Obi did.💃
I didn't say it was an "Unfair Advantage" dumbass.
I said when it came to close combat Bane only got in effective hits Via cheap shots.
And Dooku's droids didn't sneak up on Kenobi from behind whilst he was facing Dooku.. CONTEXT DUMMY!
And Bane was just running from the Jedi. Dooku wasn't running anywhere. He was fighting them both together head on.. CONTEXT DUMMY!
Originally posted by Darth ThorDint say what when I didn't stutter you twit. Dooku had a ski to worry about so your speculation is about impressive as your biased claims. Kenobi was choking but that takes time and all that needed to take place was to break his concentration which took place as evidenced by Obi's continued existence.
What?He was levitating him. Kenobi was helpless, didn't have a weapon, was choking for his life. Heck Dooku could have just slashed him with his Saber there and then.
How was he not defeated?
Quit crying over the Khan thing and talk some sense.
Unlike Khan. Who has no Force powers, therfore no chance 😂
Ah there you go dummy. The reason he had to KO Kenobi was because he was still dealing with ANAKIN.
But as far as Dooku vs Kenobi goes, that choke had him. He was helpless. He'd lost.
I didn't say it was an "Unfair Advantage" dumbass.
I said when it came to close combat Bane only got in effective hits Via cheap shots.
And Dooku's droids didn't sneak up on Kenobi from behind whilst he was facing Dooku.. CONTEXT DUMMY!
And Bane was just running from the Jedi. Dooku wasn't running anywhere. He was fighting them both together head on.. CONTEXT DUMMY!
Ko'ing him against the railing is what defeated him. Force choking kills, dummy.
Khan has a gun. Choking takes time. Khan's also superhuman and very accurate. 💃
This isn't about Khan so try not to let your vagina bleed into this thread, girl.
So you admit he needed to ko him to beat him thus that force choke did not defeat him as you initially claimed due to Anakin. He lost when he was ko'd not before. Ventress force choked both Obi and Anakin before so according to you they lost to.
Yes, you did but change tunes here in another thread. While two guys are aware they are fighting there aren't cheapshots. Obi lost. Embarrassingly so.
In combat he had more aid. His droids couldn't sneak up but its battle of course you want the drop on your opponent, kiddo
As was Tano running from the clones. 😂
Your failures have come full circle exposing all of your double standards. Dooku uses a sword so he specializes in close combat so he shouldn't run whereas a bounty hunter whose primary weapo is a fun should create more distance. You are really emotionally compromised.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree. So at least now you admit force choke has no bearing on this fight. Luke took those guards out with relative ease. Who is the best warrior Vader took out ?Many are lemmings and sheep, boy.
Well it's a force power so yes it does have bearing on this competition. You are desperate. I can see that as you try and put words into my mouth. I said Vaders application is more sophisticated. Ok so him taking out guards with ease means he's better than vader. On Vaders showings he wasn't trying to kill one of them, and the one in a new hope he was being very subtle. All he took out were two,palace guards who looked,like they hadn't worked out in years.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2You just agreed it doesn't determine the victor. Prove it is more sophisticated. He didn't take one single warrior out to my knowledge at this point so Luje is even more impressive with just one showing.
Well it's a force power so yes it does have bearing on this competition. You are desperate. I can see that as you try and put words into my mouth. I said Vaders application is more sophisticated. Ok so him taking out guards with ease means he's better than vader. On Vaders showings he wasn't trying to kill one of them, and the one in a new hope he was being very subtle. All he took out were two,palace guards who looked,like they hadn't worked out in years.
Hilarious.
never argued that both were not holding back. However, if you are going to translate Luke’s words in the way you are doing so then yeah it wouldn’t prove that Vader was more powerful. How you came to that translation is beyond me.Luke referred to their pass fight and current. Clearly he was taking about being defenseless.
Also, what is your definition of power? How do you figure Luke training makes him equal to or more than Vader?
luke was outright refusing to fight. thats not my opinion, but easily recognizable fact via dialogue and action. how much more obvious could it be than luke's final act of refusing to fight and even going so far as to throw away his lightsaber.
no, you mistakenly translated it into that. he never claimed to be defenseless. thats just baseless.
power would likely be the sum total of a jedi's abilities. thats all i can figure since darth vader says "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber. Your skills are complete. Indeed you are powerful, as the Emperor has foreseen." that line comes off as a complete non sequitur unless knowledge and skill are also regarded as part of a jedi's power.