DE Sidious runs a gauntlet
Sidious is at his peak. All others are also at their peak, unless specified otherwise.
Setting: Toydaria
No amp/prep time.
How far does he get?
Warm-up: Orbalisk Bane and Zannah
1. Satele, Scourge and HoT
2. SoD Maul, Ulic and Wyyrlok
3. Dooku, Durron and Jaina
4. Cade, Mace and Nox
5. FE Malgus and Exar Kun
6. Revan and Krayt Reborn
Boss: *Talzin, *Gethzerion and Starkiller
* Talzin and Gethzerion get their Dathomir feats
Hmmm. Come to think of it, Sidious can get a Force Storm off against all of them. By Step 1: Run away. Sidious is significantly faster then every single being in the gauntlet. Step 2: Once you've got a mile or two between yourself and the enemy, start a Force Storm. Step 3: Profit.
He might clear doing that, since you need Force Light/Harmony to stop it. And only Jedi can perform that move. All the Sith/Dark Siders are useless at stopping storms. Even the 3 amigos that are the boss can't do a thing about the storms.
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Hmmm. Come to think of it, Sidious can get a Force Storm off against all of them. By Step 1: Run away. Sidious is significantly faster then every single being in the gauntlet. Step 2: Once you've got a mile or two between yourself and the enemy, start a Force Storm. Step 3: Profit.
Sure.
Force speed isn't such a basic ability that it is available to pretty much every force user. Oh, wait. Actually, it is. So Sidious is going to "speed" nowhere.
That being said, I don't know if he can even make it through the warm-up.
Originally posted by SunRazer
He could feasibly clear, to be honest.
And how so? Maybe you want to take a look at Darth Sidious field record, with a keen eye on all the fights he got into. He lost most of them. And there are multiple reasons for that fact.
He isn't an unbeatable force and lightsaber god, that can easily handle multiple opponents. Never was, never will be.
Based on what did he lose most of his fights? He won all of them with Maul, he canonically won the one against Yoda (though it was due to weight and positioning more than raw power in most sources). He beat the Masters and intentionally lost to Mace, beat DE Luke, wrecked some other Masters in the Rebellion era, beat Maul and Savage together whilst enjoying himself...
He only lost one against DE Luke under circumstances. Even if you counted his loss to Mace, that's still not most of his fights.
The fact of matter is that Sidious's Force powers are planetary-class, his speed is the greatest in SW history save for Luke Skywalker, and his lightsaber skills would only be second to Luke and possibly Yoda.
Whether Sidious is unbeatable or not is an absolute red herring. It has no relevancy on whether or not he would pass the rounds.
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Yeah, that's why he geeked 3 masters in 60 seconds
I'm wondering what you're talking about.
and threw a fight with Windu to get a new appentice.
I've debunked that little theory the day the RotS DVD came out. That was, what, ten years ago? You see. In the RotS commentary, it is made pretty clear, that Sidious tries to kill Windu with his force lightning and utterly fails. So no "throwing the fight". He was losing it and he would have died there and then, if Anakin wasn't present to save the day.
That's why he can raze whole starfleets with Force Storm. Etc.
Yes. "Force storms", that, according to his own words and the words of the creator of the story, he couldn't control completely. You may note how he failed to use one on Luke and Leia standing right in front of him. So what makes you think they are even an option for direct combat?
This IS the #1 Sith in the mythos. Period.
Ipsedixitism still doesn't win debates.
@SunRazer
Originally posted by SunRazer
Based on what did he lose most of his fights? He won all of them with Maul, he canonically won the one against Yoda (though it was due to weight and positioning more than raw power in most sources). He beat the Masters and intentionally lost to Mace, beat DE Luke, wrecked some other Masters in the Rebellion era, beat Maul and Savage together whilst enjoying himself...
When Maul first confronted him, his apprentice almost managed to cut him down. Mace defeated him - fact. Yoda was about to defeat him, when the Jedi master's luck went out. DE Luke managed to defeat him, Han Solo managed to shoot him. Darth Vader summersaulted him into the reactor shaft of the Death Star.
The only fight in which Sidious did shine was the confrontation with his former apprentice Maul and Savage. I give him that. But then, he was leagues above them in terms of force abilities and just managed to win due to the fact. And he doesn't exactly "outclass" (as in completely dwarfing them) many people on the gauntlet list.
The fact of matter is that Sidious's Force powers are planetary-class, his speed is the greatest in SW history save for Luke Skywalker, and his lightsaber skills would only be second to Luke and possibly Yoda.
The fact of matter is, that you don't have even the smallest bit of proof for any of your claims, with the exception of his "planetary-class" powers (with quite some more impressive demonstrations of force powers having happened in the SW Universe). Speed greater than all save for Luke Skywalker? Where does that nonsense come from? Lightsaber skills only second to Luke and Yoda? Seriously. The guy received nearly no formal lightsaber training by his own master (as mentioned in "Darth Plagueis"😉, which means, he relies much on the force for his feats in the area. And that means, somebody with a greater focus on lightsaber training and closer to him in terms of force abilities than his two apprentices could take him out.
And that's not even thinking about throwing him into matches with several beings that are not exactly leagues below him in terms of force abilities. Exar Kun for example could possible take Sidious down in a 1 on 1.
Whether Sidious is unbeatable or not is an absolute red herring. It has no relevancy on whether or not he would pass the rounds.
Oh. It absolutely has. Because you need to overestimate him quite a bit to think he can clear this gauntlet. I don't see him making it past round 1 to be honest.
lmao
1. Nearly cutting him down according to his plan is not a loss, lmao. Maul realizes at the end that Sidious barely tapped into his own reserves whereas Maul was absolutely depleted. He lost. Did you even read the text?
2. DE Luke won when he was being aided by Leia's Force Harmony, great.
Han shot him when he was body was sabotaged and he was hardly in a condition to be doing anything, really. That wasn't a conventional contest in the slightest. If you're going to try and lowball, you'll have to do better than that. Not even going to address Vader lifting and throwing him.
3. Sidious also duels evenly with Yoda in some sources, and gets disarmed in a close fight in others.
4. Against an amped Mace and when he arguably gave up the fight, sure he lost. Also, why are you suggesting losses to these characters is poor on his part? You do realize that these are some of the best duelists in the mythos, yes?
5. His top-tier speed comes from repeatedly moving faster than a number of hypersonic-class characters (Maul, Anakin, etc.) can see. You do realize he holds back in a number of his fights, right?
6. Show me where it states he had no formal lightsaber training.
7. Overestimating a character has nothing to do with whether or not they're unbeatable, so yes, it's a red herring.
And no, I don't overestimate him.
Originally posted by Nai
I'm wondering what you're talking about.I've debunked that little theory the day the RotS DVD came out. That was, what, ten years ago? You see. In the RotS commentary, it is made pretty clear, that Sidious tries to kill Windu with his force lightning and utterly fails. So no "throwing the fight". He was losing it and he would have died there and then, if Anakin wasn't present to save the day.
Yes. "Force storms", that, according to his own words and the words of the creator of the story, he couldn't control completely. You may note how he failed to use one on Luke and Leia standing right in front of him. So what makes you think they are even an option for direct combat?
Ipsedixitism still doesn't win debates.
[b]@SunRazer
When Maul first confronted him, his apprentice almost managed to cut him down. Mace defeated him - fact. Yoda was about to defeat him, when the Jedi master's luck went out. DE Luke managed to defeat him, Han Solo managed to shoot him. Darth Vader summersaulted him into the reactor shaft of the Death Star.
The only fight in which Sidious did shine was the confrontation with his former apprentice Maul and Savage. I give him that. But then, he was leagues above them in terms of force abilities and just managed to win due to the fact. And he doesn't exactly "outclass" (as in completely dwarfing them) many people on the gauntlet list.
The fact of matter is, that you don't have even the smallest bit of proof for any of your claims, with the exception of his "planetary-class" powers (with quite some more impressive demonstrations of force powers having happened in the SW Universe). Speed greater than all save for Luke Skywalker? Where does that nonsense come from? Lightsaber skills only second to Luke and Yoda? Seriously. The guy received nearly no formal lightsaber training by his own master (as mentioned in "Darth Plagueis"😉, which means, he relies much on the force for his feats in the area. And that means, somebody with a greater focus on lightsaber training and closer to him in terms of force abilities than his two apprentices could take him out.
And that's not even thinking about throwing him into matches with several beings that are not exactly leagues below him in terms of force abilities. Exar Kun for example could possible take Sidious down in a 1 on 1.
Oh. It absolutely has. Because you need to overestimate him quite a bit to think he can clear this gauntlet. I don't see him making it past round 1 to be honest. [/B]
The throwing of the fight, really is an undetermined answer. There is no right or wrong to it. There's evidence for both sides. Saying that Sidious tried to kill windu, could be describing what the scene looks like. Also,there is proof that the moment Aankain took off windus hand, Sidious relapsed his true power. As when Sidious was being shocked we don't see his skeleton as appose to when we see windu get shocked we see his skeleton. Also Sidious had opportunities that were painfully obvious that he could have killed windu of he wanted to.