Look, I'm not debating 4 people at once. This is the last time I'm addressing you all.
@ Stigma
Originally posted by Stigma
Proof?
Every single time she's used it.
"Zannah shook her elbow free of Cyndra's grasp and raised her shackled hands before her face. Weaving her ringers in a complex pattern in the air, she reached out with the Force and plunged deep inside the Chiss woman's mind to find her secret, most primal fears. Buried in her subconscious were nameless horrors: abominations and creatures of nightmare never meant to see the light of day. Drawing on the power of Sith sorcery, Zannah plucked them out and brought them to life one by one.
The entire process took less than a second."
"The big man hesitated, casting a quick glance over toward the others to see what had happened. Seizing the opportunity, Zannah's fingers flickered in strange patterns as she unleashed her Sith sorcery at her foe."
"Zannah stepped forward and snapped her foot straight up, catching Set under the chin. He staggered back howling in pain while a string of unintelligible profanities spewed from his mouth, along with a spatter of blood.
"Do you yield?" Zannah asked.
His only response was to spit a gob of blood onto the expensive carpet at his feet and rush forward once more.
Zannah felt a small twinge of disappointment. She had hoped he would be smart enough not to continue a battle he could not win. Another lesson I will have to teach you.
As he drew near, she responded not with physical violence, but rather with a powerful spell of Sith sorcery that attacked Set's mind."
"Opening herself up to the power of the dark side, Zannah reached out and touched the mind of her Master."
Never does she require any more concentration and time than a standard Force push.
@ Tempest
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I read your post and addressed it: the ancient Sith did render aid {through knowledge} but it was Sheev's sheer force of will that enabled him to retain his identity enough to cross the gulf of space to Byss.
No, Sidious directly states that they guided him back to life. What knowledge do you think they gave him?
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Have other spirits crossed space through sheer will? What has been attributed to Bane comparable to that?
Sidious didn't cross the space through sheer will, he retained his identity and he had aid from various Sith spirits. The very fact that they were able to help him while he was out there demonstrates that they could also do it, does it not?
Also didn't Sidious cross space using his wormholes or by rending space of something? If so it's not like he had to retain his identity for that long.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Her attack on Bane isn't proof. Bane isn't Sheev. Bane's "numerous documented feats of immense willpower" {heretofore unattested} don't necessarily make him comparable {let alone superior} to Sheev with respect to willpower.
**** off, you've seen Bane's feats of willpower. I don't need to post them again. Saying they're unattested is just disingenuous BS and you know it. I turn this back on you. Sheev is not Bane. One single feat mired in supposition and done with aid doesn't necessarily mean he can perform much better than Bane did. Why is preserving his identity in the void that much more impressive than everything Bane's done?
@ Sunrazer
Originally posted by SunRazer
Zannah's never displayed any competent level of Sorcery against any respectable Force user without charging it up. She charged up against Bane in DoE, as I recall.
She wanted to charge it up, but she also said that if she was heavily pressed in saber's she'd have to break off doing that to defend herself. Which happened when she tripped on the grave.
@ AP
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes but your entire claim is that because it defeats Bane's massively inferior willpower then it beats anyone's, hence your Bane & Zannah > any one person idiocy.Sidious' force power directly effects his ability to maintain his willpower, that is basic Force augmentation. Bane isn't even on the same page as Sidious in terms of power, infact he isn't even in the same damn library.
Bane's willpower isn't massively inferior. Thus far no-one has posted any feats that eclipse Bane. Surviving the void with the help of sith spirits isn't good enough. Meetra has also survived immense mental discomfort and Bane has similarly shown a diamond-hard mind that allowed him to perform massive feats of willpower against staggering adversity. And you're off the mark with my claim. Zannah's attack didn't defeat Bane's willpower. He overcame it. My point was that even in overcoming it he was massively debilitated and forced to his knee's. If anyone was effected even half as badly as Bane was, they're in no shape to defend against a warrior like Orb Bane bullrushing them in sabers.
What the dick are you talking about? There's no way to augment your willpower with the Force. This is nonsense and naked Sidious wank.
Originally posted by NephthysThat's what you get for making silly arguments.
Look, I'm not debating 4 people at once. This is the last time I'm addressing you all.
Originally posted by NephthysAnd yet is stated to be by canon sources. Your inferring that the aid offered by the spirits meant Sidious didn't have to exert himself, but that inference has been proven false.
And Sidious had spirits to give him sustenance. Rending space isn't a feat of willpower.
It is evident that it required a great amount of willpower regardless.
Originally posted by Nephthys😂
What the dick are you talking about? There's no way to augment your willpower with the Force. This is nonsense and naked Sidious wank.
Then what makes Force sensitives naturally resistant to mind tricks?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDPower? Vitiate has just glutted himself on a massive dark side nexus and a planetary conflict's worth of death. Sidious at the point of death had no such sources of power, and was presumably weakened by his demise. In that way his feat remains unprecedented.
How else would they traverse space?
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Nearly cutting him down according to his plan is not a loss, lmao. Maul realizes at the end that Sidious barely tapped into his own reserves whereas Maul was absolutely depleted. He lost. Did you even read the text?
Yes. Maul was absolutely depleted - from weeks without sleep being hunted over the surface of some planets of the charts while being wounded. He still mustered enough hatred to place strikes on Sidious that his master "barely" managed to deflect. Even in their Clone Wars duel, Sidious uses his superior command of the force to defeat his former apprentice, instead of outduelling him.
2. DE Luke won when he was being aided by Leia's Force Harmony, great.Han shot him when he was body was sabotaged and he was hardly in a condition to be doing anything, really. That wasn't a conventional contest in the slightest. If you're going to try and lowball, you'll have to do better than that.
Apparently, you don't see the point. Luke needed Leia's help, because he was still a compareably inexperienced force user. Luke from the "Black Fleet" Trilogy on could probably defeat Sidious on his own. The same is the case with a rather long list of characters that, while they might lack Sidious' proficiency in the force, are rather more focused on everything related to combat than he is. There is a reason why the Official Star Wars Fact File calls Exar Kun the most powerful and dangerous of the Sith Lords. 😉
3. Sidious also duels evenly with Yoda in some sources, and gets disarmed in a close fight in others.
Sidious does profit from the fighting areal from the point he moves to the Senate pod. Apparently, despite of that, he still manages to lose his weapon and also - quite visible - was about to lose the final force contest, before the energy exploded between him and Yoda.
Now keep that in mind, and take a look back at the bigger picture, where the force was out of balance and Sidious did profit from that in every single fight with a light side user. Then go on and try to figure out what would happen, if that advantage was suddenly missing. And after that, take another look at the gauntlet list again.
4. Against an amped Mace and when he arguably gave up the fight, sure he lost.
An amped Mace?
Apparently, some people here are forgetting the fact, that the entire PT era is overshadowed by the Dark Side of the force holding the supremacy, deminishing the abilities of the Jedi in the era. Despite of that Sidious is barely able to survive Yoda and is incapable of defeating Mace. And, no, there is no "argument" that he gave up the fight. He was disarmed, he couldn't destroy Mace by using "all he could" with his force lightning. He lost. Accept it, move on.
5. His top-tier speed comes from repeatedly moving faster than a number of hypersonic-class characters (Maul, Anakin, etc.) can see. You do realize he holds back in a number of his fights, right?
You do realize, that there is a plethora of characters in the mythos with similar speed feats? Mace would be one, Kar Vastor - capable of matching speed with Mace - would be the next. Yoda, of course. Darth Bane, who even in his apprentice days could move so fast, that time seemed to stop for everyone else watching him. Even Luke in "Shadows of the Empire" (between ESB and ROTJ) managed a speed feat like that against a superhuman cyborg specifically designed to kill people. So?
6. Show me where it states he had no formal lightsaber training.
I said "nearly no" formal training. It's said multiple times in the story, that Plagueis was extremely reluctant to utilize the weapon. Then the training Sidious does receive is mostly dealing with defense against opponents using firearms against him, as Plaguies considered those the main threat in the modern day Galaxy. And I'm not saying that Sidious lacks finesse or skill with the weapon, but he is clearly no "duelling geek" like Dooku or Kas'im.