Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)

Originally posted by ares834
That "well past his prime" Kenobi beat Maul in three blows. It's a weird argument to bring in Vader's duel with him considering how the two Sith fared.

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
I agree. When we see the prequels it’s clear Lucas showed Jedi and Sith at their apex.

That's the exact context of my comment about George Lucas making it clear. A poorly trained Jedi Luke and an aging Cyborg Vader, to paraphrase Lucas.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Disney Canon completely goes against that. In Rebels (set a few years before ANH) Maul admits hes no match for Vader, and gets owned by Ben Kenobi.

The creator of that series (Dave Filoni) claims Lucas never wanted Vader to be downrated in any way. He worked with Lucas for many years on The Clone Wars.

In the new Canon novels Machine Vader (approx 5 years post ROTS) believes his anger/hatred has made him more powerful in the Force than he was in ROTS. Though I dont buy that myself, they have clearly gone out of their way to big up Vader.

Dont forget about the line in TFA, where Kylo REN is afraid he may never be as strong as Darth Vader.

Fair enough. As I mentioned to Quan, it's just not matching the continuity on saber skills and statements made by GL.

Also, Luke has the silly line about not feeling something so powerful before...only once, power he felt from Kylo. So while Kylo may think he will never be as powerful as Vader, Luke thinks both Rey and Kylo are more powerful. Which goes against everything GL had set which is that Vader had the greatest potential, Luke realizes that potential, and Sids was the most powerful Sith in history.

Now the new Disney writers want to basically disagree with those things.

The original issue is Vader vs. peak Maul:

Peak Maul should Maul suit-Vader very easily in a saber duel. There's no comparison between a poorly trained Jedi Luke and peak Maul.

pre-suit Vader >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suit Vader in saber skills. This is movie canon I'm referring to.

It’s quite clear but the Star Wars kids try to twist vague statements to suit their agenda. Not all of them but the majority do this all day long.

Same old same nonsense from Fly da’ loser.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Is that not the general consensus among the Star Wars nerds (That TPM Maul would destroy Suit-Vader)? Are there people who disagree? If so, why?

Suit-Vader would beat Maul. He doesn't have the foot-speed nor the fancy flips like Maul, but he's both the better duelist and more importantly stronger in the Force.

Originally posted by Robtard
Suit-Vader would beat Maul. He doesn't have the foot-speed nor the fancy flips like Maul, but he's both the better duelist and more importantly stronger in the Force.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Same old same nonsense from Fly da’ loser.

Originally posted by Flyattractor

So boring, fly. So unimaginative.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on? What showings make you feel this way? Vader is well past his prime and once Luke who was still inexperienced comes into his own he destroys Vader in a humiliating fashion. Vader never beat Kenobi despite being more powerful and more skilled as Kenobi’s own words. Both at his peak and later in ANH. Vader was lucky his entire life and dominated a weak era riding the coattails of an empire.

Based on SW cannon, everything we've seen and heard. We also have Maul admitting he's no real match for Vader.

RotJ Luke would also beat Maul.

I get Maul's a favorite of yours, but he's not better than Vader or Luke.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So boring, fly. So unimaginative.

once again...The Best response to you is ...

Originally posted by Flyattractor

Originally posted by Robtard
Based on SW cannon, everything we've seen and heard. We also have Maul admitting he's no real match for Vader.

RotJ Luke would also beat Maul.

I get Maul's a favorite of yours, but he's not better than Vader or Luke.

Maul would not beat Jedi Luke. That's just fan wank and goes against SW cannon.

The only Anakin/Vader Maul could beat is ep1 & ep2 Anakin. Ep3 Anakin/Vader would absolutely wipe the floor with Maul at his peak. Ep3 both has skill and he's highly mobile.

Suit-Vader would still win as well, but it would be a longer fight.

Originally posted by Robtard
Suit-Vader would beat Maul. He doesn't have the foot-speed nor the fancy flips like Maul, but he's both the better duelist and more importantly stronger in the Force.

I agree with you if this is Legends Suit-Vader...the universe formerly known as the EU...the character formerly known as EU-Suit-Vader.

Movie-canon, however, I disagree. And based on clarifying statements made by GL, suit Vader <<<< prime Jedi right before the fall of the Jedi. He shouldn't even come close to whole-Maul.

Originally posted by Robtard
Maul would not beat Jedi Luke. That's just fan wank and goes against SW cannon.

The only Anakin/Vader Maul could beat is ep1 & ep2 Anakin. Ep3 Anakin/Vader would absolutely wipe the floor with Maul at his peak. Ep3 both has skill and he's highly mobile.

Nah, Maul was able to get the better of Kenobi multiple times in clone wars and he was the guy who beat Vader at his apex. That is Vader at his best but man did he blow it against a less powerful and less skilled foe in Kenobi. Anakin Skywalker and Kenobi were both at Ventress’ mercy with a force choke. So anakin as I said was lucky circumstance always allowed him to survive by someone else being there to help him out of a tough situation.

Maul at his apex destroys Vader in the suit. It wouldn’t even be close.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul was past his prime at that point. In rebels he’s far past his prime. Maul at his apex would beat Luke as well. Luke while powerful wasn’t highly skilled in the films. Maul isn’t the central character but he’s just a more gifted and skilled opponent. Vader has potential but he lost it against someone he knew well and knew he should have bested. Vader has always been a tragic character because he’s been shit on so badly. He wasn’t even really a bad guy. Just overall a weak and insecure character.

I agree with everything in this post.

Originally posted by Robtard
Maul would not beat Jedi Luke. That's just fan wank and goes against SW cannon.

The only Anakin/Vader Maul could beat is ep1 & ep2 Anakin. Ep3 Anakin/Vader would absolutely wipe the floor with Maul at his peak. Ep3 both has skill and he's highly mobile.

Suit-Vader would still win as well, but it would be a longer fight.

I consider Maul, before being cut in half, as peak Maul. Whole-Maul. Also, since Maul is cut in half during Clone Wars and doesn't have real balls, he cannot have sex. So he's clearly not Whole-Maul-Sexual.

To recap:

Maul is about as powerful in duels as a good Jedi Master. Hence Palpy's statement about the Jedi being no match for him. It was true. Qui Gon and Obi Wan were not a match for Maul. Maul only lost because he got arrogant.

Obi Wan gets better. Much better. But I don't think Obi Wan gets truly top-tier until the time of Episode III. Years of a clone war, in my opinion, honed his skills.

Maul is still better than Obi Wan until Ep III Obi Wan. Anakin is better than Obi Wan in Ep II but just barely.

There used to be a tier system for this.

Maul is sitting between 8 and 9. And Sids, Yoda, and Anakin are 9s. Obi Wan, Dooku, and Maul are 8s. Mace is the only 10 in Sabers. Obi Wan is a special case of 8.5 because of his absurd defense. Dooku is a very high end 8, but not quite 9.

Suit Vader is a 6. RotJ Luke is a 6. There's no comparison between Prequel duelists and OT duelists. Different era.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I consider Maul, before being cut in half, as peak Maul. Whole-Maul. Also, since Maul is cut in half during Clone Wars and doesn't have real balls, he cannot have sex. So he's clearly not Whole-Maul-Sexual.

To recap:

Maul is about as powerful in duels as a good Jedi Master. Hence Palpy's statement about the Jedi being no match for him. It was true. Qui Gon and Obi Wan were not a match for Maul. Maul only lost because he got arrogant.

Obi Wan gets better. Much better. But I don't think Obi Wan gets truly top-tier until the time of Episode III. Years of a clone war, in my opinion, honed his skills.

Maul is still better than Obi Wan until Ep III Obi Wan. Anakin is better than Obi Wan in Ep II but just barely.

There used to be a tier system for this.

Maul is sitting between 8 and 9. And Sids, Yoda, and Anakin are 9s. Obi Wan, Dooku, and Maul are 8s. Mace is the only 10 in Sabers. Obi Wan is a special case of 8.5 because of his absurd defense. Dooku is a very high end 8, but not quite 9.

Suit Vader is a 6. RotJ Luke is a 6. There's no comparison between Prequel duelists and OT duelists. Different era.

It could be argued that Vader only lost to Obi because of arrogance, as they were matched as pretty much equals in their duel, with Obi being the one giving up ground while Vader pushed onward. But did his retard's flip thinking his abilities would save him from a clearly inferior position.

Anakin also defeated Dooku, while Obi was no match in epIII.

Maul's overrated, he's cool and he's a badass, no doubt, but he's not better than Yoda, Luke, Anakin/Vader, Obi or Palpatine. Dooku would also defeat him more times out of 10.

The OT suffers from from 70's 80's special effects; that's why those fights look like shit compared to the PT.

We still see Vader’s fighting prowess in Rogue One and he still looked pretty weak with those slashes compared to the crisp movements of the prequels. Maul would also beat Dooku imo. Dooku was slower and more precise but he tired very quickly as per the script.

Vader did not look weak in Rogue One.

Dooku is clearly Maul's superior. He beat Knight Obi and then Master Obi. He also did well against Yoda. Dooku >>> Maul.

In the cartoons a blinded Dooku beat Ventress and her sisters. 1 v 3 and he's blind

YouTube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyiDDQYPUIs

He's not "slow".

Originally posted by Robtard
Vader did not look weak in Rogue One.

Dooku is clearly Maul's superior. He beat Knight Obi and then Master Obi. He also did well against Yoda. Dooku >>> Maul.

In the cartoons a blinded Dooku beat Ventress and her sisters. 1 v 3 and he's blind

YouTube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyiDDQYPUIs

He's not "slow".

Nah, he’s more force powerful than he is definitely but as a duelist Maul is his physical superior in spades. Dooku’s style is to keep his opponent off balance and not let their physicality overwhelm him. We see that’s how Anakin destroyed him is just ward through his style and press him to which he lost both hands.

Yes, Dooku beats inferior opponents as well as Ventress. You don’t need eyes to see if you’re a seasoned Jedi. Hell, Luke was demonstrating blind feats despite his inexperience in ANH.

Physically he’s slow that’s undeniable and that’s why he needs to be precise as possible. He minimizes movement as to conserve his energy due to his age. Rots script proves in a very short duel how he tires extremely quickly.

Save Opress was able to force choke both he and Ventress. He marveled at the potential of Opress. That’s Dooku we are talking about. Maul beat Opress in less than ten seconds and Opress marveled at Maul’s power. Maul was able to challenge Sidious and was deemed a rival by Sidious himself. Maul’s advantages definitely exploit Dooku’s weaknesses. It’s a horrible matchup for him. Maul’s best attributes are Dooku’s worst.