Low Herald Tournament Odds

The No No list
So I am having a hard time moving forward with ban with the characters in question. So the way that I will do this is, 4 votes against a character in question gets a formal ban.
Sound good?
Banned
Gravitron
Doomsday

In Question
ANIMAL MAN
Nova Prime
Vulcan
Apocalypse
GL Corp
Ban Creel
Dr. Doom
Shadow King
Atom
Snowbird
Xavier

Telepathy

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Also question about TP.

The limit is Emma, but are we still allowed to have someone who is above her TP as long as we don't use the TP offensively?

Emma is only a point of reference. The problem is that when it comes to TP, one can make the case that Xavier is not Low Herald. He has grown stronger since the time that he fought Exodus (damn).
Offensive TP is allowed. And you can draft telepaths stronger than Emma, provided that said character is Low Herald or less.

Originally posted by Scoobless
If shadow king can survive the death of his body he would fall under the "no immortal characters" rule, right?
There's probably a bunch of dubious picks people will try to get in the drafts, we'll have to deal with the others as they appoear.

Spatial Displacement – BFR
So again. This is a low herald fusion tournament. The playing field is big, since we are drafting big boys.

BFR, should not be such a big problem at this level which is why I allowed it. When you fuse to Low Heralds, the end result is greater than the individual components.

So no, I am not going to limit what you can, and cant do when you have accesses to space manipulation.
But I am a Fair, and Just host.
4 Votes against BFR warrants a ban.
4 Votes in favor of 20 self BFR warrants a rule modification. (we can work out the details of the 20 second rule)
Sounds good?

Duplicates and Constructs
Tech Creation & Non-Autonomous Constructs/Summons: Low Herald limit

So the summons, and constructs must be low herald or low.
Exact copies of yourself as the end result are not allowed. When you fuse your 2 low heralds, you stop being Low Herald.

I did not want to put a limit on the number of constructs. Again this is a Big Boy game, with a big boy playing field. I purposely tied up some rules, but opened up others so they can be exploited.

If you want to create an endless army of drones, go for it. The Engineer alone can create like dozens of copies of herself.
If you want to mind rape through Telepathy or Technopathy. Go for it.
If you want to create an army of lightspeed zombies. Go for it.
If you want to dump portions of the sun on your enemy. Go for it.
I encourage you to be as witty, cheap, or powerful as you can be. Because in the end, members are still going to look to be cheap ways to win, regardless of the rules.

I leave it up to you guys if you want to put a limit on the constructs/summons.
4 votes warrant a rule modification.

I just want to tie this up, so we can get ready for the drafts.

Asked if a poll can be put up. Its for the No No list, the characters in question.

4 votes or more warrant a ban.

Ok Dok?

Edit: And once we iron out things, rules will be updated, and added to the front page.

Sounds fair to me.

so, we're not adhering to the high herald limit of the amalgam then? because a horde of low herald copies that can or can't move at light speed would decimate guys like thor....

and emma is NOT the limit on tp? that also would exceed low herald, imo. i mean, along with chuck, cassie is low herald... so if the limit isn't emma, then does that mean we could take charles? now i'm confused? 🙁

Originally posted by leonidas
so, we're not adhering to the high herald limit of the amalgam then? because a horde of low herald copies that can or can't move at light speed would decimate guys like thor....

and emma is NOT the limit on tp? that also would exceed low herald, imo. i mean, along with chuck, cassie is low herald... so if the limit isn't emma, then does that mean we could take charles? now i'm confused? 🙁

I amalgamate Doomsday with Cassie Nova. Yeah.

If judge votes count, we already have four against Doom. I'd also vote against Atom and Shadow King, for self BFR reasons. Shadow King CAN be affected, but it forces drafters to account for it, which could severely limit picks. No other strong opinions. Creel is a walking exploitation, but technically it could fall under the Jeffries rule.

Would Lex Luthor count as a low herald in his armor? I don't think I've ever seen Luthor drafted in a tourney and I'd like to see what someone could do with him.

Originally posted by Digi
If judge votes count, we already have four against Doom. I'd also vote against Atom and Shadow King, for self BFR reasons. Shadow King CAN be affected, but it forces drafters to account for it, which could severely limit picks. No other strong opinions. Creel is a walking exploitation, but technically it could fall under the Jeffries rule.

i'd have thought shadow king was out based on the tp limit, but now i don't think that's the case so yes, i'd agree with banning him as a loophole if nothing else given his specific ability and the specific drafts that would need to be taken to counter them.

and let's not forget the LOOPHOLE rule please. hoping id takes a firm stance on the gimmicky loopholey things that can and do pop up in these things....

and i'd put lex in armor at low herald, though a case could be made for mid maybe...

it's funny--in our little secret wars tourney (and even in the other mini one) none of the issues that are being wrangled over in here even came up... these rules are quite a bit different though from the rules we followed. i could see some crazy sh!t coming from id amended rules. but hey, i'll play by whatever rules are put in place... 😖hifty:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I amalgamate Doomsday with Cassie Nova. Yeah.

well, dd has been officially banned, but yeah, i get your point. cassie is certainly an issue (another i'd have thought banned outright due to emma's tp limit) but now....i guess she needs outright banning as well...? or no...? 😕

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd have thought shadow king was out based on the tp limit, but now i don't think that's the case so yes, i'd agree with banning him as a loophole if nothing else given his specific ability and the specific drafts that would need to be taken to counter them.

and let's not forget the LOOPHOLE rule please. hoping id takes a firm stance on the gimmicky loopholey things that can and do pop up in these things....

and i'd put lex in armor at low herald, though a case could be made for mid maybe...

it's funny--in our little secret wars tourney (and even in the other mini one) none of the issues that are being wrangled over in here even came up... these rules are quite a bit different though from the rules we followed. i could see some crazy sh!t coming from id amended rules. but hey, i'll play by whatever rules are put in place... 😖hifty:

well, dd has been officially banned, but yeah, i get your point. cassie is certainly an issue (another i'd have thought banned outright due to emma's tp limit) but now....i guess she needs outright banning as well...? or no...? 😕

Yeah. And with Lex in mid herald, imagine him with Creel's powerset. Better hope there are no Kryps around...

Of course, one could've used Bats and Creel (as someone said earlier). I was originally going to join this tourney, with a Jay Garrick/Cassie speedblitz mindrape lol, but with the limits of Emma, I was less sure. Also, I don't really have the time. I am happy however to play devil's advocate and act as advisor on loophole cheaty rules, lol.

Where would Grifter be with his TP and TK power levels. Isn't he pretty powerful?

Originally posted by The Nuul
Where would Grifter be with his TP and TK power levels. Isn't he pretty powerful?

New 52 is def above that. Pre, not so much.

Same with Zauriel, with his 'erase from existence' powers.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I am happy however to play devil's advocate and act as advisor on loophole cheaty rules, lol.

you do seem to be somewhat of an expert in the field. sneer

Is there a limit power level wise to our amalgamated characters? High herald, abstract?? What exactly is power amping? Ex. Picking Mephisto and summoning his realm to battlefield therefore drastically increasing his power level - would this be considered power amping?

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd have thought shadow king was out based on the tp limit, but now i don't think that's the case so yes, i'd agree with banning him as a loophole if nothing else given his specific ability and the specific drafts that would need to be taken to counter them.

and let's not forget the LOOPHOLE rule please. hoping id takes a firm stance on the gimmicky loopholey things that can and do pop up in these things....

and i'd put lex in armor at low herald, though a case could be made for mid maybe...

it's funny--in our little secret wars tourney (and even in the other mini one) none of the issues that are being wrangled over in here even came up... these rules are quite a bit different though from the rules we followed. i could see some crazy sh!t coming from id amended rules. but hey, i'll play by whatever rules are put in place... 😖hifty:

well, dd has been officially banned, but yeah, i get your point. cassie is certainly an issue (another i'd have thought banned outright due to emma's tp limit) but now....i guess she needs outright banning as well...? or no...? 😕

Originally posted by Ambient
Is there a limit power level wise to our amalgamated characters? High herald, abstract?? What exactly is power amping? Ex. Picking Mephisto and summoning his realm to battlefield therefore drastically increasing his power level - would this be considered power amping?

well, limit as i HAD understood, was BELOW high herald. the amalgamated characters had to be roughly on par with the high mid heralds in terms of power (for example, in our mini tourney we had amalgams like nova/nico minoru, super skrull/vision, psylocke/dr light and raven/mimic.)

this seems...different. the amalgams will be more powerful than ours i think. and no amping means you can't take someone like superman and radiation man, for example. radiation man would easily be able to amp supes to WELL above his standard levels. that is not allowed.

Is that a confirmed limit? So my example would not be power amping then and valid?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I just realized...Lex doesn't have a respect thread. Or at least not one that I can find. What gives? How does one of the top DC villains not have a respect thread?

Villains lack of respect threads in general, this is why I did both Ultron and Kang back when I had the scans.

well, your example would be illegal due to self bfr. ie, if you took magik and brought yourself and your opponent to limbo you'd lose. the characters are to be used in their most common forms...

Originally posted by leonidas
well, your example would be illegal due to self bfr. ie, if you took magik and brought yourself and your opponent to limbo you'd lose. the characters are to be used in their most common forms...

Another example would be Captain atom summoning quantum field..