Are you referring to the misquoted Ahmadinejad quote (who isn't Iran's leader anymore)?
And actually your right wing politicians (some in office) do talk about bombing places to oblivion or back to the stone age...at any rate more comparable is Israel's words, as well as their actions, in that light, while the Iran is unpleasant, they are far from the only side saying and doing shit in these conflicts.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Are you referring to the misquoted Ahmadinejad quote (who isn't Iran's leader anymore)?And actually your right wing politicians (some in office) do talk about bombing places to oblivion or back to the stone age...at any rate more comparable is Israel's words, as well as their actions, in that light, while the Iran is unpleasant, they are far from the only side saying and doing shit in these conflicts.
I'm referring to the fact the leader is apparently supporting/publishing that book about misleading the US and getting rid of Israel.
You can say some politicians might say shit, but our "leader" doesn't spout that shit in public.l
Though which politicians came out for bombing other countries and killing every single man, woman, and child in them?
Originally posted by Surtur
Not on the same level, we don't have Obama talking about wiping out entire countries or supporting people who want that or putting out books about it, etc.
True. He is doing a far better job of actually killing innocent people than Iran though. In fact I would hazard a guess that the US has killed more people in its short few hundred years than Iran has ever since the Persian empire.
AMEEERICAAAAA!!! **** YEAH
Originally posted by jaden101
True. He is doing a far better job of actually killing innocent people than Iran though. In fact I would hazard a guess that the US has killed more people in its short few hundred years than Iran has ever since the Persian empire.AMEEERICAAAAA!!! **** YEAH
This begs proof which I'm confident you don't have. Carry on.
Obviously something like that is hard to estimate, but the Vietnam war alone may be as much as 3 million deaths caused by the US military (of course that includes enemy combatants). I think Jaden's assumption about having killed more people is extremely likely.
How you count innocent people is of course up for debate.
After reading many of his posts in the past plus his latest in this thread, I'm starting to think jaden is someone who hates his own country. He's from Philly too which puzzles me. Considering the historical roots of that city I would've thought Philadelphians were among the most patriotic people in the nation.
Originally posted by psmith81992
This begs proof which I'm confident you don't have. Carry on.
The Persian empire began in 550bc during the Persian revolt in which they killed about 100,000 median opponents.
Then came the conquest of Lydia which they killed about 80,000.
Then the conquest of Babylonia at the Battle of Opis which is difficult to get accurate numbers for but Babylonia was on par with the other states in the region at the time so let's say 120,000 to add a few extra for estimates sake.
Then there was the conquest of Egypt which they killed 50,000 at the Battle of Pelusium
Then there was the greco-persian wars. So 4000 at thermopylae, 10,000 at plataea, only a few hundred at Marathon,
Then they lost to Alexander the Great
A few hundred years later they rose again with the Sasanian empire and the Battle of Hormozdgan where they killed about 20,000
Then came the Byzantine wars which was a stalemate for all intents and purposes and was about 200,000 killed
Then came the Muslim conquests in which they got destroyed. Killing roughly 30,000
Then it was about 1300 years before they were self governing again under the safavid empire which killed about 20,000 during the Hotaki invasion and subsequent recapture
Then there was the Naderian wars which they killed about 600,000
Then it was relatively uneventful up until the Iranian revolution since then
Add in some other stuff like Cunaxa, Nineveh, the mongol invasion, Chaldiran, Manzikert, krtsanisi, herat and a few other minor ones you could estimate on the high side maybe 300,000
Fast forward to modern times and the Iraq war at 400,000 (higher range of estimated Iraqis killed
Then there's their involvement against ISIS which is estimated at only a few hundred killed. Then there's the kurds, again only a few hundred
Round that up to 2,000,000. Tack on another half Mil for arguments sake.
Then look at the US
Revolutionary war 5800 enemies killed
Miss out a few and skip to world war 1. I guess the only fair way to estimate how many deaths were attributable to US forces is to say that the US made up roughly 10% of the allied numbers so let's say they contributed to 10% of the enemy dead. That makes 1,600,000
They made up about the same ratio in WW2 and were responsible for roughly the same % of enemy casualties (Russia killed about 80% of allied enemies in WW2)
That makes about 1,200,000
Korea and Vietnam was about another 2,000,000 between them
I don't even need to include the 2 Iraq wars, afghanistan, Lebanon, Bosnia, Somalia, Grenada, Panama, Haiti, Mexico,
Then the more historical stuff like the seminole wars, the black hawk wars, Sumatra...
That's not even including the native American genocide as that happened before the US was a country otherwise you'd be tagging on another good few million as they went from 12,000,000 in 1500 to about 250,000 in 1900.
So that gives a total of over 5,000,000 not including many of the wars I mentioned above or the native American genocide which would put them nearer the 20,000,000 mark. Roughly 10 times as many in 1/10 of the time
Originally posted by Star428
After reading many of his posts in the past plus his latest in this thread, I'm starting to think jaden is someone who hates his own country. He's from Philly too which puzzles me. Considering the historical roots of that city I would've thought Philadelphians were among the most patriotic people in the nation.
If you'd read many of my posts you'd know I'm not from Philadelphia (fat Albert is though) and neither am I even from the US.
Korea and Vietnam was about another 2,000,000 between them
A: You assume all 2 million casualties were civilians or innocents
B. The US is solely responsible for 100% of said casualties.
Neither one of which is accurate.
Then the more historical stuff like the seminole wars, the black hawk wars, Sumatra...That's not even including the native American genocide as that happened before the US was a country otherwise you'd be tagging on another good few million as they went from 12,000,000 in 1500 to about 250,000 in 1900.
So that gives a total of over 5,000,000 not including many of the wars I mentioned above or the native American genocide which would put them nearer the 20,000,000 mark. Roughly 10 times as many in 1/10 of the time
Originally posted by jaden101
The Persian empire began in 550bc during the Persian revolt in which they killed about 100,000 median opponents.Then came the conquest of Lydia which they killed about 80,000.
Then the conquest of Babylonia at the Battle of Opis which is difficult to get accurate numbers for but Babylonia was on par with the other states in the region at the time so let's say 120,000 to add a few extra for estimates sake.
Then there was the conquest of Egypt which they killed 50,000 at the Battle of Pelusium
Then there was the greco-persian wars. So 4000 at thermopylae, 10,000 at plataea, only a few hundred at Marathon,Then they lost to Alexander the Great
A few hundred years later they rose again with the Sasanian empire and the Battle of Hormozdgan where they killed about 20,000
Then came the Byzantine wars which was a stalemate for all intents and purposes and was about 200,000 killed
Then came the Muslim conquests in which they got destroyed. Killing roughly 30,000
Then it was about 1300 years before they were self governing again under the safavid empire which killed about 20,000 during the Hotaki invasion and subsequent recapture
Then there was the Naderian wars which they killed about 600,000
Then it was relatively uneventful up until the Iranian revolution since then
Add in some other stuff like Cunaxa, Nineveh, the mongol invasion, Chaldiran, Manzikert, krtsanisi, herat and a few other minor ones you could estimate on the high side maybe 300,000
Fast forward to modern times and the Iraq war at 400,000 (higher range of estimated Iraqis killed
Then there's their involvement against ISIS which is estimated at only a few hundred killed. Then there's the kurds, again only a few hundred
Round that up to 2,000,000. Tack on another half Mil for arguments sake.
Then look at the US
Revolutionary war 5800 enemies killed
Miss out a few and skip to world war 1. I guess the only fair way to estimate how many deaths were attributable to US forces is to say that the US made up roughly 10% of the allied numbers so let's say they contributed to 10% of the enemy dead. That makes 1,600,000They made up about the same ratio in WW2 and were responsible for roughly the same % of enemy casualties (Russia killed about 80% of allied enemies in WW2)
That makes about 1,200,000
Korea and Vietnam was about another 2,000,000 between them
I don't even need to include the 2 Iraq wars, afghanistan, Lebanon, Bosnia, Somalia, Grenada, Panama, Haiti, Mexico,
Then the more historical stuff like the seminole wars, the black hawk wars, Sumatra...
That's not even including the native American genocide as that happened before the US was a country otherwise you'd be tagging on another good few million as they went from 12,000,000 in 1500 to about 250,000 in 1900.
So that gives a total of over 5,000,000 not including many of the wars I mentioned above or the native American genocide which would put them nearer the 20,000,000 mark. Roughly 10 times as many in 1/10 of the time
I'd say no one here has the historical credentials to assess this claim you've made, but if you feel up to it it could be an interesting historical study--it would just involve studying literally every war, rebellion, invasion, and civil war to occur in Iran and areas controlled by Iranian empires. At the moment you're speaking from rough estimates and hunches.
Originally posted by psmith81992
You'd have a point if:A: You assume all 2 million casualties were civilians or innocents
B. The US is solely responsible for 100% of said casualties.
Neither one of which is accurate.Or the fact that you're intentionally or unintentionally leaving out 90% of the Indian population being decimated before the Puritans even set foot on Plymouth Rock but hey what's the point of accuracy, amirite?
That's not even remotely accurate, but not surprising. You want to go ahead and at least list one of the sources or did you copy everything from wikipedia?
Except that the number without the native American genocide is still double the Iran estimate (which I deliberately increased estimates for several conflicts due to lack of reliable numbers. I even used the upper estimates for the iran-iraq war as some have several hundred thousand less than the figure I used for that)
So yes. They're not perfect figures by any means but the US is still way ahead and increasing although a lot of that is because most of their wars have come post industrialisation and mechanisation which obviously made war more...efficient.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well, you probably have to also account for things like minor rebellions and deaths caused by starvations/mismanagement of resources. You're also leaving out all their wars with the Russians and Ottomans.I'd say no one here has the historical credentials to assess this claim you've made, but if you feel up to it it could be an interesting historical study--it would just involve studying literally every war, rebellion, invasion, and civil war to occur in Iran and areas controlled by Iranian empires. At the moment you're speaking from rough estimates and hunches.
I rounded up by several hundred thousand then added an extra half million for other conflicts not mentioned. I'd say they were fair estimates. Probably overly fair to the US.
Just glossing over his post, there's no way those figures come anywhere close to being accurate. You mentioned the battle of Manzikert which didn't even feature any Persians. Manzikert was where the Seljuk march into Anatolia began.
He's also taken some other great liberties with what can be considered as a war/battle involving the Persians, which I can't be arsed to explain or in other cases don't know enough about. The inclusion of Manzikert is by far his most egregious mistake though, as it didn't even include Persian mercenaries.
Originally posted by Slay
Just glossing over his post, there's no way those figures come anywhere close to being accurate. You mentioned the battle of Manzikert which didn't even feature any Persians. Manzikert was where the Seljuk march into Anatolia began.He's also taken some other great liberties with what can be considered as a war/battle involving the Persians, which I can't be arsed to explain or in other cases don't know enough about. The inclusion of Manzikert is by far his most egregious mistake though, as it didn't even include Persian mercenaries.
But yeah, Jaden makes big claims all the time, for instance that if North Korea attacked South Korea the United States wouldn't get involved. That one was crazy.