Originally posted by Ushgarak
You can never make sure that no criminals carry guns, but I would advocate that the UK example shows that this is not the issue you worry it would be- in the right culture.
Yes, but that ship has sailed in this country. If you did that here..we'd definitely be facing a situation of criminals being the only ones armed and not in small numbers.
I don't know about specifically black on black, but as someone who lives in Chicago, it's definitely 99% gang related. But we do have more then just black gangs here. But in some parts of the city the gangs are utterly out of control. They don't just kill because they have a problem with someone. They kill as friggin initiation rites.
I remember hearing on the radio about some six graders who came up with some kind of facebook type program for the school to keep in touch over the summer because they were afraid they'd be killed by gun violence over the summer and thus without the program they thought the last day of school might be the last day they hear from these students.
Originally posted by Surtur
Yes, but that ship has sailed in this country. If you did that here..we'd definitely be facing a situation of criminals being the only ones armed and not in small numbers.
It will just take time, is all. A long period of slowly stripping away the gun culture. When you guys finally get a few more decent gun control laws in, even as a token gesture, then the process has started.
People used to say health care would never shift in the US but it has started that long journey now. I am sure it will happen eventually for guns as well.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It will just take time, is all. A long period of slowly stripping away the gun culture. When you guys finally get a few more decent gun control laws in, even as a token gesture, then the process has started.People used to say health care would never shift in the US but it has started that long journey now. I am sure it will happen eventually for guns as well.
I think perhaps you underestimate the strength of the gun culture here.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It will just take time, is all. A long period of slowly stripping away the gun culture. When you guys finally get a few more decent gun control laws in, even as a token gesture, then the process has started.People used to say health care would never shift in the US but it has started that long journey now. I am sure it will happen eventually for guns as well.
Monumental difference between giving everyone universal healthcare vs taking the second ammendent away and then trying to take peoples guns.
We have a slogan here called
i made this post on another forum
this is what i think about gunsbasically i think guns are cool and you can kill people with them and they make loud noises and **** and you look gangster when you're holding one. so i think guns should be allowed.
but since it's a society, i feel you need to have rules. and since it's a highly complex, high-tech society, i feel you need to basically have a pretty robust surveillance state. so i honestly think that guns should be tracked more accurately. i think the major problems with guns in america could be clamped down on if there were simply more accountability for owning a gun.
my thought is... they should make a database so that any time anyone buys a gun. their name and info goes into this database and is linked with the serial number of that weapon. and they should do a basic ballistics fingerprint on each gun sold so that if someone turns up shot, they can look at the fingerprint and search the database for the gun that matches that fingerprint. then the database can link that gun to its legal owner.
now, i know there's some registration involved in purchasing guns in america but i don't think there's a national database, cause i think the NRA rallies against that idea pretty heavily. i could be wrong. correct me if i am.
but i think that if you had it set up so there was a single national entity that was responsible for monitoring the distribution of arms in the country, and this entity managed that database, it could work something like this.
when a store buys a gun from a manufacturer, it enters the system as a registered weapon. then the store is responsible for maintaining that weapon in the system until it is purchased by someone else. then, the gun is updated in the system under the customer's name. the owner of the gun is then obligated to check in with the registry office every few years or so, with the physical weapon in hand, to verify they still maintain ownership of it and the serial number still matches etc.
if the gun is stolen/lost, they have the legal responsibility to report that to the registry office as soon as possible. multiple instances of lost/stolen weapons from one individual would raise a red flag and trigger the security state to start investigating that person.
the reason i say all this is cause to my understanding, the main issue is illegal guns which leak from the legal market to the illegal market and then get sold to criminals. if you had a system where someone was always held accountable for maintaining possession of a weapon from the point of manufacturing it to its destruction... it's kind of hard to imagine how criminals would get around this system to get guns without a) smuggling them in from other countries or b) manufacturing them illegally.
so yea.. you'd still the police to fight against these means of criminals obtaining weapons... but you'd at least significantly reduce their task of managing illegal weapons since you at least narrowed down the inflow of new illegal weapons to these two sources.
thoughts....?
basically sums up what i think should be done about guns. someone told me there already is an fbi database of gun owners.. but from what i've seen it's not the kind of system i'm talking about, which requires gun owners to submit proof of possession of the firearm they purchased periodically for the entire duration of the time they own it. i don't get how people would continue to get away with "straw purchases" and things like that if this kind of registry system were in place.
Originally posted by Robtard
Come on, TI. Like you'd start shooting innocent people if all guns were outright banned and Fed came knocking on your door.
Guns cannot be banned without a constitutional amendment. Bar that, I ain't giving them up. So anyone who came looking for them would be breaking the law and I would be enforcing it.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Guns cannot be banned without a constitutional amendment. Bar that, I ain't giving them up. So anyone who came looking for them would be breaking the law and I would be enforcing it.
Certain guns/gun types have been banned before. eg .50 caliber rifles are illegal to purchase in California iirc, though those who had them prior to the ban were grandfathered in.
Originally posted by Robtard
Certain guns/gun types have been banned before. eg .50 caliber rifles are illegal to purchase in California iirc, though those who had them prior to the ban were grandfathered in.
Actually, you still can buy .50cal rifles in California, just has to be through a trust..I saw them at the gun show a few weeks ago.
Like Ush said, without a massive shift in gun culture, you can't just take away all of the guns in America.
Outside of America, countries without guns do just fine. There is some gun crime, but it's few and far between here in Ireland for instance. And it's almost unheard of that someone breaking in to your home, or trying to carjack you (which is rare itself), is done by anyone carrying a gun.
They're usually just there to grab your money/telly or whatever; not murder your family.
From what I have seen in America though, I do hope gun culture does change to at least make it harder for people to obtain guns, which would hopefully cut down on gun crime. I lived in Canada for almost three years, and the difference felt like night and day.
I think the obvious answer to this issue is to devote more focus and resources into cloning so that we can resurrect Bruce Lee. I think the world would be a much safer place if everyone had their own personal, Bruce Lee bodyguard.
Seriously though, guns are here to stay in, America. I think devoting time and energy on outlawing guns is a waste of resources...,much like the failed, war on drugs. I don't think there is a way to ever make it impossible for someone to acquire a gun illegally. The black markets economics works just like any other economic market, there is supply and demand. There may be ways to make it harder for someone to obtain a gun illegally but i don't think there is anything we can do to remove that option entirely
I think better enforcing gun laws and finding ways to make gun owners more accountable for their firearms is the only practical place to begin in fighting this issue. I fully support the ability to own a firearm but i certainly think their needs to be more stringent restrictions. If we have to study and practice driving in order to acquire a driving license i don't see why one shouldnt have to do the same in a firearms permit.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Drugs are illegal and people still get them. Do you think banning guns will stop criminals from getting them?
In the UK where guns are mostly blanket banned the criminals who break into houses (mostly drug addicts are serial burglars)are almost entirely different from those who carry guns (organised crime members and gang members).
Car jacking is almost non existent here due to limited access to guns and in years where cases have spiked have tended to be localised due to large proportions being carried out by the same group until they are caught.