Planned Parenthood Breaks the Law

Originally posted by Surtur

But anyways, what about abortion? Do you think men should be able to "terminate" their rights as a father the same way a woman can terminate a pregnancy?

Well, that is a bit complicated, first of all I think that ensuring that children are properly raised in acceptable circumstances is the duty of society, and as such public money should be spend to support caretakers.

I suppose I do think that a father that chooses to give up the rights that come with parenthood should probably have the right to do so (within some time frame). I view this more as giving the child up to adoption, rather than equivalent to abortion though. I really have to think about this issue more though to make up my mind.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Braddock, You still glossed over OP they are selling body parts for profit which is illegal.

if it proves true, they were obviously not following planned parenthood's policy, and were breaking the law.

the typical republican solution is to demonize the whole social program and throw out the baby with the bath water. same with medicare, social security, welfare, etc. if it doesnt operate at 100% efficiency, burn it the f*** down and replace it with...well...we'll worry about that later.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, that is a bit complicated, first of all I think that ensuring that children are properly raised in acceptable circumstances is the duty of society, and as such public money should be spend to support caretakers.

I suppose I do think that a father that chooses to give up the rights that come with parenthood should probably have the right to do so (within some time frame). I view this more as giving the child up to adoption, rather than equivalent to abortion though. I really have to think about this issue more though to make up my mind.

Well yeah that is basically how I'd be viewing it as well(adoption). The guy doesn't have to pay child support or any of that, but he also loses all rights as a father, so no visitation, etc.

I would prefer women choose adoption over abortion as well, but I can see why they would not. Carrying the child for 9 months..when the time comes to give up the child it could be devastating emotionally. Then there is what pregnancy does to a woman's body.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
So her saying she wants to sell enough body parts to buy a Ferrari is just "meh."

It was a Lamborghini, and it was an obvious joke. And additionally, she wasn't representing planned parenthood, but a for-profit company that sells the logistics of hooking up researchers with donors.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
if it proves true, they were obviously not following planned parenthood's policy, and were breaking the law.

the typical republican solution is to demonize the whole social program and throw out the baby with the bath water. same with medicare, social security, welfare, etc. if it doesnt operate at 100% efficiency, burn it the f*** down and replace it with...well...we'll worry about that later.

I have no problem with Medicare, social security or welfare for who actually need it. Like the disabled.

I remember a few days ago hearing people on the radio going back and forth on this selling body parts issue..and it somehow devolved into an argument about stem cell research.

Originally posted by Surtur
Well yeah that is basically how I'd be viewing it as well(adoption). The guy doesn't have to pay child support or any of that, but he also loses all rights as a father, so no visitation, etc.

I would prefer women choose adoption over abortion as well, but I can see why they would not. Carrying the child for 9 months..when the time comes to give up the child it could be devastating emotionally. Then there is what pregnancy does to a woman's body.

And if the father gives up his right then the state has to pay the child support, yes?

Yes, abortion is a different thing and exists for different reasons.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It was a Lamborghini, and it was an obvious joke. And additionally, she wasn't representing planned parenthood, but a for-profit company that sells the logistics of hooking up researchers with donors.

Lambos are more expensive so proves my point even further🙂

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Lambos are more expensive so proves my point even further🙂

If not for how my sentence ended.

No they did represent PP. Stop backing out.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I have no problem with Medicare, social security or welfare for who actually need it. Like the disabled.

every social program will be exploited by a number of freeloaders. the only way to prevent this with 100% certainty is to end that program utterly and make everyone else suffer.

No you can get the freeloaders out. But then again the people that run these programs are government so their job is to keep people in need.

It's not that hard to say "you can work" or "no you are actually disabled"

Have you ever asked a homeless bum why he is a bum?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
No you can get the freeloaders out.

it is impossible to implement a social program with no risk of exploitation by freeloaders. the key is implementing reforms to reduce fraud, not swinging a big cleaver at the whole thing. the fact remains that 100% fraud-free welfare is a fool's dream.

Time limits would work, not endless aid.

Originally posted by Bardock42
ARE YOU ****ING JOKING?

Perhaps his experience as a male has not allowed him to see it from a female's perspective quite yet...?

But his experience is something I definitely hear thrown at men "your fault, wrap it up, bla bla bla."

This is why I'm so much on board with the Vasalgel product. Finally, there will be no good excuse for men and excellent reproductive power to be able to choose to not have children until they absolutely want them.

Also, the sllut shaming you talked about is accurate (it is very much real when a woman gets pregnant). I think some women abort simply because of the social stigma of "unwed mother." 😐 Yeah, the same Christians that b*tch about abortions may actually be partially at fault for abortions due to their self-righteous judgementalism. 😐 They drive, at worst, some women to getting abortions to avoid the social repercussions of being an unwed mother.

Edit - I'm about 90% agreeing with you, Bards. That's what I'm saying. But I think you reacted a bit too angrily at his comments. His point is definitely accurate...except for the whole part about the female side of things. I'll be honest, I did the same shaming to a member on KMC when he had a pregnancy scare with a gal. I gave him the same shit about how he was dumb, how he should wrap it up, how he's at fault, etc. If I changed the genders, that would make me seem sexist. So it is also sexist for me to treat men that way.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Perhaps his experience as a male has not allowed him to see it from a female's perspective quite yet...?

But his experience is something I definitely hear thrown at men "your fault, wrap it up, bla bla bla."

This is why I'm so much on board with the Vasalgel product. Finally, there will be no good excuse for men and excellent reproductive power to be able to choose to not have children until they absolutely want them.

Also, the sllut shaming you talked about is accurate (it is very much real when a woman gets pregnant). I think some women abort simply because of the social stigma of "unwed mother." 😐 Yeah, the same Christians that b*tch about abortions may actually be partially at fault for abortions due to their self-righteous judgementalism. 😐 They drive, at worst, some women to getting abortions to avoid the social repercussions of being an unwed mother.

Edit - I'm about 90% agreeing with you, Bards. That's what I'm saying. But I think you reacted a bit too angrily at his comments. His point is definitely accurate...except for the whole part about the female side of things. I'll be honest, I did the same shaming to a member on KMC when he had a pregnancy scare with a gal. I gave him the same shit about how he was dumb, how he should wrap it up, how he's at fault, etc. If I changed the genders, that would make me seem sexist. So it is also sexist for me to treat men that way.

Sure, if you disregard the actual context...

edit: wrong thread

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sure, if you disregard the actual context...

Nah, not really. Sure, Surtur's comment is obviously myopic and focuses just on the male's experience but he may have little female interaction so don't be too hard on him. He brought up a valid point. A real male issue that many males face when a pregnancy happens.

There are unfair requirements thrown at men during pregnancies as though it is their fault for knocking up a woman. Reproduction issues are not just all about women's issues: clearly. Surtur is definitely right: there is unfair and even sexist shit thrown at men for pregnancies. Part of that comes from the misandrous notion that men are horn dogs and perpetuated all of the sexual activities and it is ultimately all the man's fault that the woman got pregnant. Bla bla. You know the rest.

Just don't get so upset when someone brings up a male's perspective when it comes to reproduction. It is not all just about the woman, dude.

Chop off Surtur's clearly sexist comentary and at the meat of his argument is a good point.

In our societies there are some requirements put on men to equal out the biological requirements that a pregnancy puts on the woman. Again, I don't think there's reason to let something stand that lacks context.

Originally posted by Bardock42
In our societies there are some requirements put on men to equal out the biological requirements that a pregnancy puts on the woman.

Sometimes. Depends on the people in the social circle of the "pregnant couple." In some circles, the man is blamed for everything and the woman is just an innocent deer in headlights that was tricked into sex by a horny man. Surtur is clearly coming from that myopic perspective, as I stated earlier. To make it more clear, you stated:

Originally posted by Bardock42
They get almost solely blamed for pregnancy and have to deal with the consequences.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Again, I don't think there's reason to let something stand that lacks context.

Maybe Surtur comes from a similar social group as I do where the man is socially flogged for "getting his girl pregnant"?

Honestly, I very rarely see, "Oh, that girl is a sl*t for getting pregnant" that you're talking about. I know it is exists in the real world. But I haven't seen it often "in the wild." I have seen it on TV (from mostly period piece shows) and read about it in old literature (Scarlet Letter, for example), lol.

To give you an example, within my very large "Mormon" social circle, when a young lady gets pregnant, people react, "Poor thing. Getting tricked by the horny man. Here are church services, legal help, and a counselor to help with this unfortunate situation." But for the men, "You should be ashamed of yourself. Where is your self-control? This is your fault because you're the man." But, of course, that's to be expected because part of our beliefs are that the men are supposed to be good examples and providers for the family.

Surtur's comment was sexist as f*ck and close-minded. Don't get me wrong. But you swing nearly the opposite direction which is what I disagree with. As usual, we definitely agree but we just assert different degrees of how we view it.