Originally posted by RealityWarper
A) Superman never demonstrated a power at that scale.B) In Strange Visitor, he took him billions of billions of years to glean the power necessary to save one universe.
C) He doesn't have the power to one-shot a moon-sized item with one punch as he needs to charge through it like a bullet.
D) When Superman died the DC Omniverse didn't disappear...
Fixing one reality via reuniting with his old self is due to the mechanics of this reality, not because of Superman power.
Lowballing I see. Goku needed to hold his breath under water, was almost killed by a simple laser, didn't even destroy a planet etc.
A.) He did. When he broke free of multiversal boundaries, tanked attacks from Emperor Joker, Entropypowered B13 etc.
B.) Superman can rush the power but this endangers everyone else. If he attunes to it over time it's safer. His power has no limits though, he limits his access to it. Big difference.
C.) Supermans power level is dynamic, as high as it needs to be. At full power all the people around him would be in danger, hence mental blocks.
D.) Superman didn't die. Reread the arc, he was in a coma, not dead if you refer to DoS.
The power of the Omniverse, the source of the Omniverse, the key to the Omniverse, the Story that powers this Omniverse it's his and it's as great as it needs to be to overcome any obstacle, IF necessary. It's not that hard to understand.
Also Superman is the metatextual reason why Superheroes exist. His story powers also the Marvelverse, the DB-Verse etc. Without Superman there would be no Goku.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Lowballing I see.
"Lowballing".
I exposed facts.
Goku needed to hold his breath under water,
Superman hold is breath too, over long period of time.
was almost killed by a simple laser,
When he had used-up his energy and was caught off-guard.
I'm not sure that you understand the mechanics of the characters.
didn't even destroy a planet
He still countered and overpowered planet-busting attacks and his fight with Beerus was far beyond that...
etc
I guess that "etc" is what you call "ignoring context" in English.
A.) He did. When he broke free of multiversal boundaries
Never happened.
tanked attacks from Emperor Joker
Who was playing with him using physical attacks instead of erasing him with a thought.
*context*
Entropypowered B13 etc.
Scan.
B.) Superman can rush the power but this endangers everyone else. If he attunes to it over time it's safer. His power has no limits though, he limits his access to it. Big difference.
Superman is powered by the Sun.
A simple star will never give Superman the power to deal with the omniverse and never has.
Superman has shown his limits in pretty every comics.
C.) Supermans power level is dynamic, as high as it needs to be. At full power all the people around him would be in danger, hence mental blocks.
Sure.
Same can be said for Spider-Man.
D.) Superman didn't die. Reread the arc, he was in a coma, not dead if you refer to DoS.
Either ways his current state didn't affect the omniverse.
The power of the Omniverse, the source of the Omniverse, the key to the Omniverse, the Story that powers this Omniverse it's his
Until presented evidence that Superman has an omniversal-power that's your own speculations.
So far there is 75 years of evidence that proves that Superman hasn't omniversal power.
and it's as great as it needs to be to overcome any obstacle, IF necessary. It's not that hard to understand.
Like every hero in every stories.
They become as good as the story needs them to be to overcome any obstacle.
Also Superman is the metatextual reason why Superheroes exist.
Still completely wrong.
Heroes exist since the dawn of times.
Heracles, Jason and other mythical figures existed thousands of years before Superman.
His story powers also the Marvelverse, the DB-Verse etc. Without Superman there would be no Goku.
That's one of the most ridiculous thing that I have ever read on that forum.
DC comics can disappear, Marvel and the DB-verse will be fine.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
"Lowballing".I exposed facts.
Superman hold is breath too, over long period of time.
When he had used-up his energy and was caught off-guard.
I'm not sure that you understand the mechanics of the characters.
He still countered and overpowered planet-busting attacks and his fight with Beerus was far beyond that...
I guess that "etc" is what you call "ignoring context" in English.
Never happened.
Who was playing with him using physical attacks instead of erasing him with a thought.
*context*
Scan.
Superman is powered by the Sun.
A simple star will never give Superman the power to deal with the omniverse and never has.
Superman has shown his limits in pretty every comics.
Sure.
Same can be said for Spider-Man.
Either ways his current state didn't affect the omniverse.
Until presented evidence that Superman has an omniversal-power that's your own speculations.
So far there is 75 years of evidence that proves that Superman hasn't omniversal power.
Like every hero in every stories.
They become as good as the story needs them to be to overcome any obstacle.
Still completely wrong.
Heroes exist since the dawn of times.
Heracles, Jason and other mythical figures existed thousands of years before Superman.
That's one of the most ridiculous thing that I have ever read on that forum.
DC comics can disappear, Marvel and the DB-verse will be fine.
facepalm oh lord the ignorance and the hypocrisy. Cringeworthy.
If DC disappears now, yes. If Superman would have never been created we would have no Goku. But you can't follow the simples logic, don't even read the comics and lowball or highball as it suits you. I don't engage in circular arguments with obvious trolls, so have a good day 😉.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
facepalm oh lord the ignorance and the hypocrisy. Cringeworthy.
Sure.
I asked you to provide evidence of your claims of Superman having omniversal-power which you didn't.
I guess that calling Superman usual showings "lowballing" is the way to wilfully ignore everything that doesn't suit your views.
If DC disappears now, yes. If Superman would have never been created we would have no Goku.
Goku is inspired from the Monkey King so that kind of theory crumble big time.
His origin was slightly retconned at the Saiyan Saga.
The whole argument "every comic book characters that exist are inspired by Superman thus he is most powerful than every of them" is not only wrong but completely irrational at best.
But you can't follow the simples logic
Sure.
"Simple logic".
Do you mean "baseless claims unsupported by the story" ?
Because that's how it looks like.
don't even read the comics and lowball
I have read every Superman comics you mentioned.
or highball as it suits you.
I neither "highball" or "lowball" and use all feats and knows their context and that's how it has to be done from the characters from both sides.
Do I need to post Superman being one-shotted by a weak Ki-attack in Actin Comics #787 again to prove that Goku will stomp Superman effortlessly ?
I don't engage in circular arguments with obvious trolls, so have a good day 😉.
Sure.
You can end that post with an Ad Hominem if that makes you feel better however you failed big time to provide any evidence of your claims.
Your posts are at best highly speculative and nobody with a minimal knowledge about Superman will buy the highly out-of-context "evidence" you presented.
Originally posted by cdtm
You don't even need to go back to ancient myths, there was Namor and pulp heroes like The Shadow before Superman.But Superman is what sparked modern comics as we know it today. If all we had is Namor, we wouldn't be debating comic books or manga. 😛
That's true but bringing which heroes was first in the comic book industry is pointless when it comes to a fictional fight debate. ^^
I don't even get why this guy is bringing that on the table. Pointless.
Originally posted by cdtm
Well, that was the point behind Grant Morrison's Superman Beyond 4d story. The whole thing was a meta narration about a meta universe that used concepts to beat other concepts, or something.You know how Morrison gets.
Yeah I know. I have read the Final Crisis.
I like how far Grant Morrison get. ^^
I don't think that meta-conceptual stuff can be used in a debate.
Originally posted by cdtm
Well, that was the point behind Grant Morrison's Superman Beyond 4d story. The whole thing was a meta narration about a meta universe that used concepts to beat other concepts, or something.You know how Morrison gets.
It doesn't matter though, especially when we have beings far more powerful than him. Superman assisted In Superboy Prime being created but was still a weak feeb compared to him.