Goku vs Superman Death Battle-Discuss

Originally posted by Damborgson
What is this meant to argue? I agree Superman beats Z Goku. And you agree Super Goku beats Superman. So....what's up?

And physical might does not invalidate planet busting power. Silver Surfer isn't considered an elite herald because he can mangle you with punches, but because he drop black holes on you, despite having smaller biceps than Hulk.

Super hadn't aired yet when the second Superman vs. Goku DB was released. Only the films had. And nothing in those films indicated Goku could now beat Superman.

It sure does. Destructive capacity means nothing if you're too slow and weak to keep yourself from being dominated before using it.

Silver Surfer is much faster than pre-Super Goku, as well as stronger. More to the point, he is also incredibly versatile, one of the most versatile heralds.

Goku by comparison is a flying brick with some basic energy projection powers and a teleport. His sole saving grace was his destructive capacity, and even that wasn't particularly impressive by herald standards. His complete lack of versatility and feeble physical capabilities meant he got dominated by pretty much every high herald.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Then what are you saying?

Super hadn't aired yet when the second Superman vs. Goku DB was released. Only the films had. And nothing in those films indicated Goku could now beat Superman.

It sure does. Destructive capacity means nothing if you're too slow and weak to keep yourself from being dominated before using it.

Silver Surfer is much faster than pre-Super Goku, as well as stronger. More to the point, he is also incredibly versatile, one of the most versatile heralds.

Goku by comparison is a flying brick with some basic energy projection powers and a teleport. His sole saving grace was his destructive capacity, and even that wasn't particularly impressive by herald standards. His complete lack of versatility and feeble physical capabilities meant he got dominated by pretty much every high herald.

That Goku beats Superman now. Even before the other amps not aired at the time. The increase would have still been so much it would allow him to jump out of the herald category.

Oh you're arguing that Goku is a weak herald by comparison? Not interested enough to spend time on that subject.

Originally posted by Damborgson
That Goku beats Superman now. Even before the other amps not aired at the time. The increase would have still been so much it would allow him to jump out of the herald category.

Oh you're arguing that Goku is a weak herald by comparison? Not interested enough to spend time on that subject.

Small star busting times twelve wouldn't even allow Goku to have destructive capacity on par with the Silver Surfer's feats.

Is? No. Was? Absolutely. Now he is far above high herald characters.

Soooooooooo..........

Using high ends Superman wins but using averages Goku wins?

Nemebro obviously doesn't know what he is talking about. He needs to stay out of Z threads.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No they wouldn't have been.

Small star busting times twelve wouldn't even allow Goku to have destructive capacity on par with the Silver Surfer's feats.

Is? No. Was? Absolutely. Now he is far above high herald characters.

Sure they would have. It rockets him outside of the herald category, that's what you need to beat a herald.

Except Goku would be walking around with that power. As displayed against Beerus. Surfers average is not creating black holes. That's a super high end feat done once in decades. Goku regularly fires off power that can dust planets, from scaling.

Well of course.

*edit beat a herald on average. He's still weak to soul tampering and whatnot.

Originally posted by juggerman
Soooooooooo..........

Using high ends Superman wins but using averages Goku wins?

Well yeah, but high end Superman is nearly unstoppable. Like he'd be punching Galactus across planets.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
It was just an example to illustrate my point. Feel free to disagree but to me it was the most reasonable answer to the increase in power yet not an equal increase in physical stats. So take no offense if I disagree, though I do respect your opinion.

Understood bro. 👆

Originally posted by Damborgson
Sure they would have. It rockets him outside of the herald category, that's what you need to beat a herald.

No, this simply isn't true. In terms of actual destructive capacity he would only be marginally stronger. He wouldn't be able to bust the sun with a mere twelve times increase in power.

Except Goku would be walking around with that power. As displayed against Beerus. Surfers average is not creating black holes. That's a super high end feat done once in decades. Goku regularly fires off power that can dust planets, from scaling.

Creating black holes is also inconceivably more impressive than dusting a planet. People talk about "averages" without having any idea of what the term "average" means. It doesn't mean you just throw away the higher feats. Those higher feats bring Surfer's average up considerably.

Though to be honest I'm not particularly familiar with Silver Surfer.

Superman on the other hand has so many planetary+ physical strength feats that to ignore them all is idiotic, and his speed is consistently FTL, which already puts him above any incarnation of Goku pre-Super.

Goku's speed as SSJ3 multiplied by twelve still wouldn't even be a significant fraction of Superman's speed. Ditto his strength.

In terms of destructive capacity he would be exponentially stronger.

The black hole feat is THE feat for Surfer. His average is very high , which is why he's a herald, but when I say average, I mean the blasts he uses in battles, are not equal to that level. Which is the vast, vast, majority of his history. His average or even somewhat serious attacks aren't super impressive.

Superman is physically overwhelming, but off strict feats, he's physically overwhelming to everyone. Even Gokus universe busting punches which were wanked so hard . what with rewriting reality with every punch.

Gokus power x12 on average is more than enough to put him above Superman. He doesn't have the feats but neither does anyone else. And Superman's average punches and strength or even standard combat showings typically aren't on par with his max, ecen if his max is of course much more consistent than other characters.

Originally posted by Damborgson
I am not a Superman fanboy lol. I just refuse to take part of such extreme lowballing of the opposite character.

I'm not lowballing, that's the point.

Your arguments are basic, superman can't tag goku because he couldn't tag character x, but all someone needs to do to contradict you, is post Superman tagging character Y, who is much faster than Goku, I.e. flash, and your argument went to crap.

Unfortunately Flash isn't faster than Goku when it comes to an hand to hand fight.

Flash doesn't have a single feat that makes him close to Goku combat speed wise.

Flash is a faster runner but Goku is a faster fighter by several light years...

You are saying that Usain Bolt is faster than Mike Tyson because he runs faster and we both knows that's not true.

That's why you can't low ball,

I'm not lowballing.

You are making the same mistake about the combat speed than many.

that's why Goku obviously isn't ray gun level.

English please. I don't know what is "ray gun level"

So take into consideration, that maybe your argument needs some work, and look for ways to improve it.

I don't need to "work on my argument".

I've already posted feats of Goku fighting at a very high speed far beyond anything Superman can process.

We both knows that Goku has become a lot faster since that with all the power-ups.

No feats of Superman have been posted to contradict this because they don't exist.

Superman doesn't have a single speed ft that putsaid him on Goku level.

I do not have the mental strength for that post today lol.

Maybe tomorrow.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman doesn't have a single speed ft that putsaid him on Goku level.

Really!

So I guess Kal outracing a ship that teleported from Pluto to the Earth while said ship was cloacked, and Kal had to you're search the whole Earth is not a speed feat now?

Originally posted by SquallX
Really!

So I guess Kal outracing a ship that teleported from Pluto to the Earth while said ship was cloacked, and Kal had to you're search the whole Earth is not a speed feat now?

My God...

Stop with the travel speed already...

The combat speed isn't about how fast they can run or fly...

That's completely irrelevant.

Originally posted by SquallX
Really!

So I guess Kal outracing a ship that teleported from Pluto to the Earth while said ship was cloacked, and Kal had to you're search the whole Earth is not a speed feat now?

Vulcan flew from Earth to the Sh'iar empire in two weeks (empire is in another galaxy) and he still couldn't stop a bullet.

Originally posted by carver9
Vulcan flew from Earth to the Sh'iar empire in two weeks (empire is in another galaxy) and he still couldn't stop a bullet.

Bro, intercepting projectiles doesn't matter neither.

Vulcan can't stop regular attacks.

Originally posted by carver9
Vulcan flew from Earth to the Sh'iar empire in two weeks (empire is in another galaxy) and he still couldn't stop a bullet.

Comparing Vulcan to Superman, how brilliant of you.

I'm comparing flight speed to combat speed.

Superman isn't a Green Lantern.