Goku vs Superman Death Battle-Discuss

Started by AuraAngel183 pages

Superman is unquestionably the more popular of the two. There is no arguing this. Stiltman might be correct when he talks about Goku being more popular relative to time(I don't know the state of the comic book industry between the late 30's and 60's but it seems to me most books would try to create characters that distinguish themselves from Supes, rather than trying to appear like him) but that has to do with something Toriyama could not predict.

Clark's popularity isn't really a surprise though. For starters the bare basics are so easy to understand one only read his name. "Superman". As in, the best man. Man taken to the next level. Son Goku is a name that only means something if you know Journey to the West.

There is so much more though. Superman was developed in an English(most widely spoken language) speaking country, Goku for an island nation that only spoke Japanese. Goku was written/drawn by one man for a little more than a decade with three different animated adaptions. Superman has been published regularly since his creation, has several cartoons/cartoon related materials related to him get tossed out there, and has several movies produced by Hollywood(the most important name in the film industry). When Superman "died" he had four books going on at once, something flat out impossible for Goku. Perhaps most importantly, Goku is not part of an extended universe that includes all of mangadom. Most mangaka have been influenced by Goku/DB and all have heard of Toriyama but their worlds are theirs. Naruto is not forced to share the spotlight with him. While Superman is considered not only the heart and soul of DC but the purest example of a Super hero comics have to offer. Goku really isn't even the most popular character to come from Japan. That honor probably goes to Godzilla. To be fair though Superman isn't likely as well known as Mickey Mouse but ya get the point.

No what is impressive here is that Goku is as popular as he is. By all rights he really shouldn't be. He should have just gone away. But Goku has a significant advantage as well. He was conceptualized and later made public in the West during the raise of the internet. The themes inherent to Goku's character also probably have better appeal to those of us today. Superman is often seen as a boy scout and whether or not that image is true that image has stuck. There are many facets of his character that make him a far more interesting character to explore than Goku, and many authors have, but fact is DC needs Superman to be THE Hero. Goku has been allowed more growth. He gets a kid, he gets a permanent wife, and he eventually gets to become a god for real. With comics you're never quite sure what will stick and what will not. With Goku it is clear. He's gone from being a child who knew nothing about the world to a martial artist fighting his master for the right to be called strongest under the heavens to fighting gods himself. All the while the theme of training oneself, mastering ones own abilities, and becoming the best you can be are placed in the background. These are the reasons Goku has struck a chord with so many, along with a few other details.

Now does this make him more popular than Superman? Well it depends on what you mean. In sheer terms of how many people know about them, Superman takes the cake. But the real important question regarding Superman isn't whether people know him or not. The question should be how many people actually care about him existing. I personally love the idea of Superman and examining his effects as cultural cornerstone. I even love the stories one can get from him. But have I read a single comic or gone out of my way to watch films about him? Not really. I don't think I'm alone in this either. The vast majority of the internet, for better or for worse, prefers Batman by a wide margin due to the latter's incredible good luck when it came to quality adaptations. Man of Steel made tons of money but right now there is no doubt the super hero film firmly belongs to Marvel. Between Marvel and Batman, Superman's prominence in the eyes of the popular audience outside of comics is dwindling.

Whereas Goku...well like I said he really ought to have died by this point. His manga ended in 95, his anime hadn't been on television in quite a while, and GT was widely disliked. DB Evolution should honestly have just killed the worth of the IP for good but it didn't. But the series left such a massive impact that it has been brought back several times and is now experiencing a rebirth in the films and Super.

A good example of the state of things is to look at the box office. RoF was advertised as "Freeza is back and the gang has to stop him from destroying the Earth!" It is a shameless cash grab in every sense of the word. Bringing back the series most popular bad guy just so Goku could defeat him once again. It even ends with a psuedo deus ex machina. The box office results might even speak for themselves. RoF's overall lifetime gross is only $61,768,190. Compared to Man of Steel($668,045,518) the winner of the popularity contest should be obvious. However that ignores several key factors at play. MoS was published by Warner Bros(big name) while RoF went through Funimation Films(utterly unknown to most audiences). MoS had Snyder and Nolan whereas RoF had...well no one anyone would have heard about working on it. Most damning, MoS was released to 4207 theaters for 22 weeks. RoF was only in theaters, at least here in the states, for 2 weeks and in under a thousand theaters. For an anime movie, RoF did fantastic and is rated more highly on Rotten Tomatoes than MoS. Now compare MoS to Dark Knight Rises($1,084,939,099). That is a significant gap for two films with similar amounts of distribution. Superman is unquestionably better known than Batman but his films lose out in every way. And the Guardians of the Galaxy are definitely not as well known as Goku, never mind Superman, and their film launched them into the forefront of comic book heroes with $774,176,600. That by all rights should be impossible.

Not that any of this affects a vs thread. I just wanted to throw my ideas on the subject out there. It doesn't matter to me who is more popular.

Originally posted by carver9
Being more recognized and more popular are two different things.

Depends on the definition you go with, actually.

They can - and often are - used as synonyms.

Originally posted by SquallX
Not really. Even people that's not into comics knows who's Superman compare to Goku.

Superman's name has gone beyond the comics mythos into helping real people. Goku's name though famous, has never went beyond his manga mythos.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
No. Everyone and their mother knows who Superman is, heard the name, saw the logo and the costume, at least here in Europe and the parts of asia where i have been. Japan might be the only place where both are equally known.

DBS is not on tv here, most manga/anime fans prefer other series.

Well, I'm not saying who's more popular. I'm saying relative to their time here, their resources and exposure and whatnot, Goku feels like he's been pushed more. A huge hit TV series, a shitty spin off TV series, hit manga, like 20 movies, hit video games that keep being made and customized long after the series ended, a new series from sheer demand to be brought back, etc. All in a relatively short time compared to Superman and his vastly more expansive resources.

Edit: Oh and even a shitty live action movie lol. Even though that didn't help much.

Carver deranged Goku syndrome.

I think you guys are getting famous and popular mixed up.

Originally posted by carver9
We go by averages showings and even at their strongest, Goku kills him and the JLA with a simple attack.

since when do vs battles only go by averages do you realize how stupid that sounds.

if steph curry averages 23 pts a game does it mean that he is incapable of scoring more than that in a game

cmon now lets be logical here i kno you love goku but sheesh

Originally posted by yungz22
since when do vs battles only go by averages do you realize how stupid that sounds.

if steph curry averages 23 pts a game does it mean that he is incapable of scoring more than that in a game

cmon now lets be logical here i kno you love goku but sheesh

On the forum, we go by AVERAGE showings or most fights would be irrelevant. Example, Gladiator survived an attack that could've laid waste to a solar system. Would we consider that his average or is that a high showing? Is that something that we would base our entire argument off of or would we look at his average.

Hulk has ripped through adamantium, skin has been compared to adamantium on more than one occasion. Made a Skyfather lime character explode in a single punch. Would this be his average or a high showing that isn't consistent with the character.

KMC debates primarily off of average showings because if we debate using nothing but highs then a lot of the fights we have present on KMC would be irrelevant. People like Thor could beat Superboy Prime. Hell, Thor could probably beat Galactus if we debate primarily off of high showings since Thor has punched through abstract beings and withstood attacks from an angry Celestial. Learn how to debate.

Originally posted by carver9
On the forum, we go by AVERAGE showings or most fights would be irrelevant. Example, Gladiator survived an attack that could've laid waste to a solar system. Would we consider that his average or is that a high showing? Is that something that we would base our entire argument off of or would we look at his average.

Hulk has ripped through adamantium, skin has been compared to adamantium on more than one occasion. Made a Skyfather lime character explode in a single punch. Would this be his average or a high showing that isn't consistent with the character.

KMC debates primarily off of average showings because if we debate using nothing but highs then a lot of the fights we have present on KMC would be irrelevant. People like Thor could beat Superboy Prime. Hell, Thor could probably beat Galactus if we debate primarily off of high showings since Thor has punched through abstract beings and withstood attacks from an angry Celestial. Learn how to debate.

show me that averages rule because what your saying is literally borderline retarded.

its kinda sad really... anything to make goku win huh?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Carver my friend, what is your reasoning or what numbers show you that goku is more popular?

I have no idea why he acts like this....
He is a Fanboy to no end.

Originally posted by yungz22
show me that averages rule because what your saying is literally borderline retarded.

its kinda sad really... anything to make goku win huh?


Pretty much for any dbztards.

Originally posted by yungz22
show me that averages rule because what your saying is literally borderline retarded.

its kinda sad really... anything to make goku win huh?


Why are you even supporting Superman? You had literally no idea about what's canon and what's not.

Superman gets destroyed.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Why are you even supporting Superman? You had literally no idea about what's canon and what's not.

Superman gets destroyed.

Superman destroys Goku*

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Why are you even supporting Superman? You had literally no idea about what's canon and what's not.

Superman gets destroyed.

ooooh because all star superman is the only comic where supes performs crazy feats right?

also i dont even like superman goku is the way better character in my preference.... but that doesnt mean hed lose to goku in a fight.... again lets layout the feats and facts instead of the tards just immediately say goku would win

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Why are you even supporting Superman? You had literally no idea about what's canon and what's not.

Superman gets destroyed.

hahaha

Originally posted by yungz22
show me that averages rule because what your saying is literally borderline retarded.

its kinda sad really... anything to make goku win huh?

We debate off of average showings (common sense), not highs. Look at the rules yourself. Also, what showing of Superman makes you think he could take Goku? Name one. This question is for yungz.

Originally posted by carver9
We debate off of average showings (common sense), not highs. Look at the rules yourself. Also, what showing of Superman makes you think he could take Goku? Name one. This question is for yungz.

What feat does goku even have to be above superman?.....

Nothing....

Originally posted by Damborgson
Well, I'm not saying who's more popular. I'm saying relative to their time here, their resources and exposure and whatnot, Goku feels like he's been pushed more. A huge hit TV series, a shitty spin off TV series, hit manga, like 20 movies, hit video games that keep being made and customized long after the series ended, a new series from sheer demand to be brought back, etc. All in a relatively short time compared to Superman and his vastly more expansive resources.

Edit: Oh and even a shitty live action movie lol. Even though that didn't help much.

Superman has a lot of monthly comics, since years, regular animated movies and whatnot. I think the impression of Goku being more popular is an internet based thing. DB fans are, at least this is my impression, younger and have more time to roam the internet, they are also very passionate. Superman fans are rather a generation up or the children of those fans, who are not yet in the www.
From my personal experience, and I am a bit involved here in the german comic/manga scene, there are not many passionate "fans" of comic or manga chars, manga had a hype in the last year but personally I count two friends who are abolsutely one piece fans and one who thinks Batman is the greatest, the rest reads everything and one of my oldest friends like DB but not exclusively and it's not his number 1.

Popularity from an know about or recognize point of view is a no brainer and Superman stomps about everyone. If it comes to passion or obsession, like Abhi and Carver, there might indeed be a bit more DB fans than Superman fans.

Hardcore DB fans on KMC would be (nothing negative about this guys):
Carver
SSJGogeta
bbrem123

Hardcore Superman fans would be:
Abhi
Juntai
Philosophia

Both groups have people that are reasonable i think. So on kmc I think it's a draw.

I would definitely say there are more Superman fans on KMC. Oh and you forgot to add yourself the the Superman list 😛

Superman for sure is more famous than Goku. I am 100% sure if you asked 100 different people if they had heard of Superman it would be all 100. Goku on the other hand you would not get the same result.

That does not make Superman popular though.

I could see Goku being very close in current days because of the new manga/anime/movies. Superman does have followings in every age group though.

Originally posted by carver9
We debate off of average showings (common sense), not highs. Look at the rules yourself. Also, what showing of Superman makes you think he could take Goku? Name one. This question is for yungz.

that average showings stuff is bs

you have the burden of proof i dont have to look it up if you make a claim its your duty to present the evidence....

idk how bout lifting infinity or holding a black hole... theres many more those are just two.