Originally posted by abhilegend
😂
Just recently Surtur, a Marvel Skyfather, was going to destroy the entire universe till Odin stepped in and saved the day.
Lucifer's highest feat was creating a universe with his brother's power (that universe didn't even have angels/abstracts/etc...).
Originally posted by kevdude
TOAA
Michael/Lucifer then
Everybody else here.
To put things into perspective Lucifer and Michael exists outside the primal monitor, which is what all of DC/Vertigo exists within as a tiny droplet within an ocean.
Furthermore, Lucifer created a infinite multiverse as it is stated on panel.
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I still havent read this series but anything that has universal power would barely be midway up the Marvel/DC food chain. Destroying and recreating universes, reality warping is like a monthly thing in their respective multiverses.
Michael and Lucifer are abstracts of the highest order - said to be second in creation (next to God, of course).
Michael is the embodiment of God's power - the Dunamis Demiurgos. It is stated - repeatedly - that releasing his power would destroy all of creation. He had the power to end the war in Heaven with a wave of his hand, but he's kind of a pussy and mostly a pacifist.
Lucifer is the embodiment of God's will, and with it has infinite reality warping ability. He took Michael into the void, killed him, survived the Dunamis Demiurgos point blank, and then created a multiverse out of it effortlessly.
Feats can go on and on. People will try to lowball both Lucifer and Michael, but it's important to consider that Lucifer during his series was at full power for only a few chapters (voluntarily removing his wings before then and being weakened by God's departure thereafter). Michael was also depowered by God's departure and fiercely avoids using his power so as not to threaten creation. He has a few feats outside of Vertigo, including manhandling the Spectre with ease.
To answer the question, both are unquestionably above the Endless, and therefore should be likewise above Marvel's comparable abstracts (somewhere around LT, though I would probably rank LT higher for being a more complete being)
Originally posted by Board Walker
To put things into perspective Lucifer and Michael exists outside the primal monitor, which is what all of DC/Vertigo exists within as a tiny droplet within an ocean.
Where are you getting this from?
Originally posted by zopzop
Lucifer's highest feat was creating a universe with his brother's power (that universe didn't even have angels/abstracts/etc...).
He chose not to create immortals and the like. That much was made very clear if you read..
Originally posted by Cogito
Lucifer's best feat was arguably tanking the Dunamis Demiurgos, but that's irrelevant. When Lucifer created his multiverse he created the concepts of time, space, etc. You know, all the things that are abstracts.He chose not to create immortals and the like. That much was made very clear if you read..
When Yahweh threatened to destroy "all creation", Elaine knew what it was :
"A Universe". The merged creation was A UNIVERSE.
And in the next to final issue in the series, Elaine takes over and becomes one with creation and guess what it is :
"My mind runs across the universe".
Now unless you got scans more recent than these calling it a multiverse or whatever. Post them please. Make sure they POST date the issues in these scans : Lucifer 68, 69, and the next to final issue 74.
Originally posted by zopzop
We've been through this. It was a universe, the three distinct creations were merged into ONE :
We have been through this - a million times.
In Lucifer: Nirvana (too lazy to post scans), Lucifer specifically says he created "a totality - a multiverse". You can find further proof if you like, such as the alternate Cal that appears from another universe.
Yes, the series commonly uses the word "universe". Don't read too much into it, it's not accurate. We know there's only one Lucifer, only one Michael, only one (of each) Endless. They all exist within the DCU (a multiverse, without a doubt).
Originally posted by zopzop
What have they done to place them above Skyfather?Just recently Surtur, a Marvel Skyfather, was going to destroy the entire universe till Odin stepped in and saved the day.
Lucifer's highest feat was creating a universe with his brother's power (that universe didn't even have angels/abstracts/etc...).
So you don't see any problems with the fact that the guy you are talking about who was going to destroy the entire universe..being stopped by Odin? When Odin is nowhere near universal level?
How was he even planning to destroy the universe? If he legitimately had enough innate power to do that..Odin would of been as much of a threat as a mosquito.
Originally posted by Surtur
So you don't see any problems with the fact that the guy you are talking about who was going to destroy the entire universe..being stopped by Odin? When Odin is nowhere near universal level?How was he even planning to destroy the universe? If he legitimately had enough innate power to do that..Odin would of been as much of a threat as a mosquito.
Originally posted by Surtur
So Odin failed to defeat Galactus, who can't destroy a single universe...why? Why was *this* fight going to destroy the universe, but other times when Odin has gotten serious all he did was destroy surrounding galaxies?
Check out his fight with Scrier/The Other. That fight would have destroyed the entire MULTIVERSE.
Originally posted by zopzop
Who says Galactus can't destroy a universe? Galactus is there to keep the balance between Eternity and Death, not wreck creation.Check out his fight with Scrier/The Other. That fight would have destroyed the entire MULTIVERSE.
Same thing was said when Phantom Stranger and Spectre fought.