Beerus durability vs Cell attack

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Actually, you're wrong. How many times in the series have DBZ characters batted away, or lifted, or tanked, planet busting attacks? Or even galaxy busting ones, now that Bills is a universe buster?

Imo, it seems like swatting away a planet busting+ attack should prove that you have ridiculous Superman level+ strength, given that you need a force of 110 quadrillion megatons. Which is the equivalent in force of 110 sextillion tons. Meaning that the blast, before exploding, would physically weigh that much, and after exploding, would produce a blast of that much force.

And it's even higher for the solar system, galaxy, and apparently universe, busting attacks we've seen. And btw, universe level has only been seen a handful of times by Superman, and every time, the universe level character has been capable of one-shotting him.

And Thor has even less impressive feats than Superman, so he doesn't even belong here.

Thor is damn powerful but I didn't bring him up. Superman either

Originally posted by carver9
They have the strength imo, they just never had a reason to display it. Neither Thor nor Superman broke a planet with their fist. We can't sit here and say they can 'outside of hyperbole'...that's if we are going the ft route you are going.

Also, lol, Thor used a freaking fishing pole and a boat in the snake showing. Come on man. You gotta do better than that. Thor has better showings.

Goku strength fts are him wrecking someone with high end durability. Question, would you be impressed if Hulk punched a hole in Odin and please explain why.

While I completely agree with the Goku strength feats being wrecking someone with high end durability thing, I gotta say that you're kind of underselling Superman. And Odin.

Odin has destroyed galaxies before. It has severely weakened him, and made him very tired and winded, but he is a galaxy buster. But Thor is not even close to Odin level, so he's irrelevant.

And Superman is probably around Odin's level. He has sneezed away solar systems, pulled thousands of planets from one galaxy to another, flown faster than the Flash(Barry Allen) could run, held a black hole without instantly dying, survived supernova's, etc. His feats are, in fact, more impressive than Odin's, at least to me. But Superman doesn't have energy projection that lets him galaxy bust, or anything like that. He has heat vision, but that's best feat was destroying a planet. Which is Saiyan saga Vegeta level, so not that impressive to DBZ.

Originally posted by juggerman
There is no evidence that ki blasts have weight like that. If there is something that proves it please let me know. You like to try to apply real world logic in these things but it doesn't always apply

Thor is damn powerful but I didn't bring him up. Superman either

Actually there is. The evidence is common sense. These aren't nukes that the Z-fighters are flinging around at each other, they are condensed EXPLOSIONS. Explosions don't have WEIGHT, but they DO have force, which is the same thing, in principal. And the characters often times struggle with the blasts, and batting them away, blocking them, etc. And they are blown away by them, often times. So the blasts CLEARLY have force. The best way to determine how much, is by how big the explosions they make are. This, of course, in DBZ isn't always reliable, as many times, the explosions THEMSELVES are condensed, so they don't destroy the environment. A perfect example of this is Majin Vegeta's final explosion, against Fat Buu. However, it STILL gives us a bare minimum estimation. If a blast will destroy a planet, it has 110 quadrillion megatons inside it, or 110 sextillion tons. That weight doesn't just magically appear when the blast explodes. These aren't nukes they're throwing around, as I said earlier.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
While I completely agree with the Goku strength feats being wrecking someone with high end durability thing, I gotta say that you're kind of underselling Superman. And Odin.

Odin has destroyed galaxies before. It has severely weakened him, and made him very tired and winded, but he is a galaxy buster. But Thor is not even close to Odin level, so he's irrelevant.

And Superman is probably around Odin's level. He has sneezed away solar systems, pulled thousands of planets from one galaxy to another, flown faster than the Flash(Barry Allen) could run, held a black hole without instantly dying, survived supernova's, etc. His feats are, in fact, more impressive than Odin's, at least to me. But Superman doesn't have energy projection that lets him galaxy bust, or anything like that. He has heat vision, but that's best feat was destroying a planet. Which is Saiyan saga Vegeta level, so not that impressive to DBZ.

Yep...I know what Odin and Superman has done. I asked him the Odin question for a reason want to see what he will say.

I believe Superman can destroy a planet. I believe Thor can destroy one as well. What I am explaining to him is that he is basing things primarily off of fts and neither Thor nor Superman has destroyed planets. He cant give fts to one and not share to the others. Get what I'm saying?

That's pre crisis Superman who sneezed away Galaxies. Superman isn't close to that power anymore. Every ft you named was Pre Crisis. He isn't a valid Superman anymore.

Originally posted by carver9
They have the strength imo, they just never had a reason to display it. Neither Thor nor Superman broke a planet with their fist. We can't sit here and say they can 'outside of hyperbole'...that's if we are going the ft route you are going.

Also, lol, Thor used a freaking fishing pole and a boat in the snake showing. Come on man. You gotta do better than that. Thor has better showings.

Goku strength fts are him wrecking someone with high end durability. Question, would you be impressed if Hulk punched a hole in Odin and please explain why.

Thor and Superman have done things beyond that and the have gone toe to toe with beings that have so there are reasons we can assume what level they have. With DBZ we can't because no only do the not have superior feats(strictly talking strength here) they also don't have feats of going against people that can do those things. For example if a new character comes along and goes toe to toe WWH for a long fight and there is no clear winner, you'd naturally assume that character was around that tier even tho he has no real feats to speak of. So when Superman and Thor hold their own against people with better feats, we can assume they are around that level too

I'm not as versed on Thor but that was a feat I've heard was pretty up there lol. I'll do better next time

Yes I would be impressed. The reason is because he couldn't do that to Zeus

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Okay, I DO understand what you're saying here.

But the simple fact of the matter is that there is 100% nothing Cell can do against Bills EXCLUDING the possibility of kienzan. His best attack, the spirit bomb, when used against Frieza, did barely anything. The only reason it worked so well against Kid Buu, is because he was pure evil. Bills is not pure evil, and even if he was pure evil at heart, he isn't MADE of evil, like Kid Buu was.

And while just standing there, Bills, like every other DBZ character, is able to use all of his ki that he would normally use for fighting, to further increase his durability.

We wouldn't even be having this argument though, if Krillin wasn't such a ***** in BOTG's, and actually tried protecting his wife, who Bills just ktfo. Because it probably would have just bounced off of him.

And btw, the special beam cannon thing was proven against too, when Buutenks used it against Mystic Gohan, and he blocked it. Or was that filler as well? I can't recall.

Right. I don't know if the Disc {i]WOULD[/i] work but it's his best shot imo.

Dunno about the Canon being filler or not

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Actually there is. The evidence is common sense. These aren't nukes that the Z-fighters are flinging around at each other, they are condensed EXPLOSIONS. Explosions don't have WEIGHT, but they DO have force, which is the same thing, in principal. And the characters often times struggle with the blasts, and batting them away, blocking them, etc. And they are blown away by them, often times. So the blasts CLEARLY have force. The best way to determine how much, is by how big the explosions they make are. This, of course, in DBZ isn't always reliable, as many times, the explosions THEMSELVES are condensed, so they don't destroy the environment. A perfect example of this is Majin Vegeta's final explosion, against Fat Buu. However, it STILL gives us a bare minimum estimation. If a blast will destroy a planet, it has 110 quadrillion megatons inside it, or 110 sextillion tons. That weight doesn't just magically appear when the blast explodes. These aren't nukes they're throwing around, as I said earlier.

The ki doesn't just explode right away tho so there's no reason to assume it has the total weight of the explosion before it explodes any more than a grenade does. Or a nuke. Again common sense doesn't always fit in comics. Ki isn't something that we have and can measure in our verse so we can't assume it follows any rules we know of. Unless there is some in universe explanation, we can only say we don't know

Originally posted by juggerman
Thor and Superman have done things beyond that and the have gone toe to toe with beings that have so there are reasons we can assume what level they have. With DBZ we can't because no only do the not have superior feats(strictly talking strength here) they also don't have feats of going against people that can do those things. For example if a new character comes along and goes toe to toe WWH for a long fight and there is no clear winner, you'd naturally assume that character was around that tier even tho he has no real feats to speak of. So when Superman and Thor hold their own against people with better feats, we can assume they are around that level too

I'm not as versed on Thor but that was a feat I've heard was pretty up there lol. I'll do better next time

Yes I would be impressed. The reason is because he couldn't do that to Zeus

Lol...it's different in American comics though. Fighting a character doesn't necessarily put you in their tier physically (who has these two fought that has punched a planet to dust). Everyone in a certain tier fights people all of the time that is above their pay grade. It is what it is. Also, what ft does either of these guys have that's above planet busting. Strength fts. Benching weights and destroying something are two different things in my opinion. I can curl a lot but I sure as hell can not destroy something with my fist that has the weight of what I can curl. Get what I'm saying here?

WWH has fought against beings that isn't physically on his level.

Superman has fought with beings that isn't as strong as him.

Thor has.

Juggernaut has.

You get the point. All I'm saying is, give credit where credit is due. If you believe that character A can do this and character B can't, you should have a reasonable answer behind it minus who a character has fought because Diana has fought Superman on numerous of occasions but I would not rely on her as being one of the individuals to destroy the dark matter moon.

Sigh...ok, without you bringing other characters into this...if Hulk punched a hole clean through Odin, why would you be impressed (I think you see where I am going with this and is trying to avoid it)?

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...it's different in American comics though. Fighting a character doesn't necessarily put you in their tier physically (who has these two fought that has punched a planet to dust). Everyone in a certain tier fights people all of the time that is above their pay grade. It is what it is. Also, what ft does either of these guys have that's above planet busting. Strength fts. Benching weights and destroying something are two different things in my opinion. I can curl a lot but I sure as hell can not destroy something with my fist that has the weight of what I can curl. Get what I'm saying here?

WWH has fought against beings that isn't physically on his level.

Superman has fought with beings that isn't as strong as him.

Thor has.

Juggernaut has.

You get the point. All I'm saying is, give credit where credit is due. If you believe that character A can do this and character B can't, you should have a reasonable answer behind it minus who a character has fought because Diana has fought Superman on numerous of occasions but I would not rely on her as being one of the individuals to destroy the dark matter moon.

Sigh...ok, without you bringing other characters into this...if Hulk punched a hole clean through Odin, why would you be impressed (I think you see where I am going with this and is trying to avoid it)?

I'm talking about being someone's physical equal which is why I said someone fight WWH evenly with no clear winner. In the comic we know he was holding back but he was still clearly above everyone else except maybe Sentry. I don't mean like Batman holding his own against a mind controlled or holding back Superman. I mean like a dead even, strictly physically, both parties giving it their all fight.

I can't lift a 4 foot pile of sand but I can certainly destroy the pile.

I see what you are saying about characters fighting each other but you are taking what I'm saying out of context. There are clear indications of power ranges in comics. Spiderman holding his own once or twice against Thor would not put him on Thor's level when we have about a million other showings where Thor and SM are far and away n different tiers. But in DB we have not one instance of someone having planet level strength. So we can't assume they have it just because we want them too. Physical attacks and ki attacks are wildly different and so are the character's defenses to them.

Are you referring to Gohan punching a hole thru Frieza? If so that's non canon. That's the only thing I can think of

Originally posted by carver9
Superman isn't close to that power anymore. Every ft you named was Pre Crisis. He isn't a valid Superman anymore.

Thats because people like you wrote to Pak and others and bitched and complained how far he outclassed Hulk and that his power needed to be reigned in.

Originally posted by juggerman
I'm talking about being someone's physical equal which is why I said someone fight WWH evenly with no clear winner. In the comic we know he was holding back but he was still clearly above everyone else except maybe Sentry. I don't mean like Batman holding his own against a mind controlled or holding back Superman. I mean like a dead even, strictly physically, both parties giving it their all fight.

I can't lift a 4 foot pile of sand but I can certainly destroy the pile.

I see what you are saying about characters fighting each other but you are taking what I'm saying out of context. There are clear indications of power ranges in comics. Spiderman holding his own once or twice against Thor would not put him on Thor's level when we have about a million other showings where Thor and SM are far and away n different tiers. But in DB we have not one instance of someone having planet level strength. So we can't assume they have it just because we want them too. Physical attacks and ki attacks are wildly different and so are the character's defenses to them.

Are you referring to Gohan punching a hole thru Frieza? If so that's non canon. That's the only thing I can think of

Who has Thor or Superman fought evenly with that can or has shed planets with their fist? If we are going to assume that are equal to beings that can wreck planets just by punching them (which is a rare occasion, extremely rare occasion in comics), then we need to see said character that either of these two fought achieving something like this. Who is this planet puncher you're talking about? Also, New 52 Supes said he can not destroy a planet.

No: my question doesn't have anything to do with Goku or anyone in DBZ. I just want to know if you would be impressed with Hulk punching a hole in Odin and if so, why would you be impressed.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Thats because people like you wrote to Pak and others and bitched and complained how far he outclassed Hulk and that his power needed to be reigned in.

😂 😂

I do not dislike Superman and by the time they depowered him, I probably wasn't born. That was a call on DC not me or people like me.

The most powerful attack Cell displayed was his final Kamehameha, which possessed solar system-busting potential. That said, it wouldn't so much as leave a scuff on Beerus' clothing, imo. I am quite confident of this because in the preview for next week's episode of DBS, Beerus is shown tanking a blast from an enraged SSJ3 Goku, without even flinching:

Given that SSJ3 Goku is more than 4x> Super-Perfect Cell, pretty much any of his all-out/charged attacks would be superior to Cell's final Kamehameha. Collateral damage is irrelevant.

Originally posted by carver9
😂 😂

I do not dislike Superman and by the time they depowered him, I probably wasn't born. That was a call on DC not me or people like me.

Oh well my sig is way better then yours.

Keep miring bro

Originally posted by juggerman
It never failed in canon. Probably because it's a cutting move and not a blast

^ Yes. As was the Cell Juniors using them against SSJ2 Gohan.

Didn't Krillin also use a disc it Frieza, or was that only in the anime?

He did spam discs at 2th form Frieza in the manga.

Originally posted by Galan007

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He did spam discs at 2th form Frieza in the manga.

👆

Thanks, I believe that is the best example of a signifantly less powerful character injuring a much stronger with a disc.

Originally posted by Galan007
The most powerful attack Cell displayed was his final Kamehameha, which possessed solar system-busting potential. That said, it wouldn't so much as leave a scuff on Beerus' clothing, imo. I am quite confident of this because in the preview for next week's episode of DBS, Beerus is shown tanking a blast from an enraged SSJ3 Goku, without even flinching:

Given that SSJ3 Goku is more than 4x> Super-Perfect Cell, pretty much any of his all-out/charged attacks would be superior to Cell's final Kamehameha. Collateral damage is irrelevant.

^ 👆