It's clear that Freedon_Nadd wants a debate. 😇
Funnily enough, I can see Nhillus at his full power soloing via drain. And if TK is any measure of combative prowess - which people seem to argue for here - then 'N' should just ragdoll them both. As long as the Ravenger on Malchor is heavier than 5 Munturr stones.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Nihilus is effective, until he runs into the top tier true powerhouses like these two, where he gets flattened.
No, there's an old source claiming that he was "rumored" to know every Force technique, though some sources have come out in the future explicitly naming techniques that were beyond Palpatine's knowledge (retconned eventually, but still).
As powerful as Nihilus and Vitiate are, their destructive capacity is outstripped by Palpatine, who's also canonically more powerful. Yoda's good enough to hold his own in terms of power and butcher them close-up. Team 2 wins.
Originally posted by SunRazer
No, there's an old source claiming that he was "rumored" to know every Force technique, though some sources have come out in the future explicitly naming techniques that were beyond Palpatine's knowledge (retconned eventually, but still).As powerful as Nihilus and Vitiate are, their destructive capacity is outstripped by Palpatine, who's also canonically more powerful. Yoda's good enough to hold his own in terms of power and butcher them close-up. Team 2 wins.
Originally posted by SunRazer
though some sources have come out in the future explicitly naming techniques that were beyond Palpatine's knowledge (retconned eventually, but still)
Interesting. I assume these 'retcons' are part of exclusive head-canon unknown to the rest of us...
As powerful as Nihilus and Vitiate are, their destructive capacity is outstripped by Palpatine,
Vitiate and Nhillus have also destroyed the surfaces of worlds with seemingly greater ease, and in a shorter time periods than Palpatine has. Valkorion even did so in his spectral form. Do remember however, that this is still a versus thread and not a demolition contest. How to you expect Sidious' destructive prowess will come into play, when much of that power was useless against Luke and Leia?
canonically more powerful
The canonically more powerful idea pretty much boils down to the personal opinion of a historian who lived during the rise of the Empire. His opinion is not some binding fact. Yes, Sidious is the most powerful sith lord of his time, but that doesn't apply to other era's.
Yoda's good enough to hold his own in terms of power
Apparantly not.
and butcher them close-up.
Quite correct, but it probably won't come to that.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Sidious and Yoda are well beyond the Drain upper limit.
The "upper limit" of the Drain, as far as we've seen, is a planet hosting a species of Force users and 100+ Jedi. Somehow I fail to see how Sidious are "well beyond" that accumulation of force power. And there is still no defense against the technique.
But even assuming that the last sentence is not true and Sidious and Yoda have their ways to resist that drain or defend themselves against it, what do they do when Vitiate fires some area effect abilities at them at the same time?
While Sidious and Yoda might be good challengers for Vitiate and Nihilus, or even capable of defeating them individually (which could be argued), I really don't see them doing any good against two beings who have some devastating force attacks up their sleeves that can affect rather large areas and have sucessfully been used against other Force users.
The only way I see Sidious and Yoda winning is by either closing into melee combat rather fast (where they should have the upper hand).
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Planet's have Force defenses now? And the Jedi, they were performing battle meld or something?
The Jedi who were drained simultaneously together with the Force using population of the planet most certainly had - even individually.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Krayt could drain Abeloth, the actual effects of which were minimal. Darth Sidious being of far greater caliber than Darth Nihilus renders his drain moot for all of the few seconds it'll take for Sidious to void his spirit.Though, we both know the real reason for your reply, Nai.
Yeah.
Except Nihilus attack is not a simply force drain (which is sapping Force powers), but a direct attack against the Force connection of the victims, killing them through draining the "Living force" from them.
And then, I don't get your comparison at all. So because Krayt can't do anything with this technique to Abeloth, Nihilus can't do anything to Sidious as well? That doesn't follow.
And my "real reason" for reply would be what? I was genuinely interested in how you explain "Sidious and Yoda" > "planet filled with force user and 100 Jedi". Apparently, you don't. 😉
Nai, I like how you presume to educate myself on matters of a game I've had the better part of a dozen years to perfect opinions on. Nihilus' drain is so amazing that he can strip(but not kill) Darth Traya and kill Darth Sion, neither of whom would even appear on the radar of Darth Sidious
In all actual seriousness, Darth Traya taught Nihilus the greatest heights of the technique itself. She explains that what he uses is an instinctive form of Drain Life, a technique that cannot be taught but experienced, something as old as the Sith themselves are. It is not some justifiable 'no limits fallacy' power.
You didn't understand the Krayt/Abeloth comparison, evidently, allow me to explain. Having a 'hax' power such as Sever Force or Drain, is only useful against those of similar or lesser power than yourself. The precedent for this is based on Urr vs Kun, Krayt vs Abeloth, etc.
Sidious is much too powerful to fall prey to a Drain Life technique, let alone him and Yoda combined.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Nai, I like how you presume to educate myself on matters of a game I've had the better part of a dozen years to perfect opinions on. Nihilus' drain is so amaxing
And I like how you dodge the question and ignore the fact, that I myself had the same time to "perfect opinion" (cringeworthy expression) on that game, too. A claim that is, by the way, completely counteracted by your seeming inability to defend them. 👆