Originally posted by Nibedicus
Proof?
Well, there's a lot of stuff, but maybe start off with this article http://www.newsweek.com/why-parents-may-cause-gender-differences-kids-79501 and then go from there.
I sometimes wonder if people don't make these accounts to troll. Goading people into hatred and anger seems easier when it's political or religious topics.
Then again, this is the internet. I assume it's even more depressing to think that forums like this just attract polarizing people who would rather make extremist caricatures to validate their views than engage in discussion. Look at the first two posts in this thread and it's already immediately obvious nothing good or productive will happen here.
Because, like, I could offer my opinion on this topic. I do have one. But I hold no delusions that it would be engaged reasonably, if at all. I consider the best scenario at this point to be my opinion being ignored. The options should it be responded to are, unfortunately, far worse.
Originally posted by Digi
I sometimes wonder if people don't make these accounts to troll. Goading people into hatred and anger seems easier when it's political or religious topics.Then again, this is the internet. I assume it's even more depressing to think that forums like this just attract polarizing people who would rather make extremist caricatures to validate their views than engage in discussion. Look at the first two posts in this thread and it's already immediately obvious nothing good or productive will happen here.
Because, like, I could offer my opinion on this topic. I do have one. But I hold no delusions that it would be engaged reasonably, if at all. I consider the best scenario at this point to be my opinion being ignored. The options should it be responded to are, unfortunately, far worse.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, there's a lot of stuff, but maybe start off with this article http://www.newsweek.com/why-parents-may-cause-gender-differences-kids-79501 and then go from there.
That article tells us about how parents treat their kids and how parents subconsciously assigning gender roles affect the emotional growth of their kids
That has nothing to do with how kids treat other kids or how kida have some sort of gender specific "rift" you are babbling about.
Yes, kids can grow differently due to how parents' percieve gender specific differences. That has nothing to do with anything society created but how they really are as kids.
But the article also mentions that there are inherent (tho tiny) differences between the genders at infancy (such as boys being more irritable than girls, and this, in turn has made parents interact more with daughters). This actually makes sense as, by observation, my daughter is far more social than her boy cousins. These tiny differences can be attributed to differences in interction between the kids and can all add up to how they prefer their play when they are older.
They are treated differently because they act differently. This has nothing to do with society teaching them gender rifts.....
Pardon typos and trailing paragrpahs, am on my Ipad atm.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
That article tells us about how parents treat their kids and how parents subconsciously assigning gender roles affect the emotional growth of their kidsThat has nothing to do with how kids treat other kids or how kida have some sort of gender specific "rift" you are babbling about.
Yes, kids can grow differently due to how parents' percieve gender specific differences. That has nothing to do with anything society created but how they really are as kids.
But the article also mentions that there are inherent (tho tiny) differences between the genders at infancy (such as boys being more irritable than girls, and this, in turn has made parents interact more with daughters). This actually makes sense as, by observation, my daughter is far more social than her boy cousins. These tiny differences can be attributed to differences in interction between the kids and can all add up to how they prefer their play when they are older.
They are treated differently because they act differently. This has nothing to do with society teaching them gender rifts.....
Pardon typos and trailing paragrpahs, am on my Ipad atm.
Are you seriously claiming that society doesn't treat boys and girls differently? What proof do you need? Prevalence of room color based on gender? Different marketing to boys and girls in advertisements? Different toys that are bought for boys than for girls? What would you need to prove this self evident fact? Or can you just not be contrary and admit that we (society) treat children different based on gender from the moment they are born?
Originally posted by Digi
I sometimes wonder if people don't make these accounts to troll. Goading people into hatred and anger seems easier when it's political or religious topics.Then again, this is the internet. I assume it's even more depressing to think that forums like this just attract polarizing people who would rather make extremist caricatures to validate their views than engage in discussion. Look at the first two posts in this thread and it's already immediately obvious nothing good or productive will happen here.
Because, like, I could offer my opinion on this topic. I do have one. But I hold no delusions that it would be engaged reasonably, if at all. I consider the best scenario at this point to be my opinion being ignored. The options should it be responded to are, unfortunately, far worse.
You do have a point.
That is why I used to prefer the comics and movie forums. Easier to sate my hunger for debate there as I have little emotional stake on the matter (as I really do not care that much about fictional characters). General forum debates get me a little heated (first time I debated here, I got too emotional and got my logic all jumbled up) as they are actual issues I feel strongly about.
Sadly, there aren't any decent new topics in the movie forums and comic forums these days.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Are you seriously claiming that society doesn't treat boys and girls differently? What proof do you need? Prevalence of room color based on gender? Different marketing to boys and girls in advertisements? Different toys that are bought for boys than for girls? What would you need to prove this self evident fact? Or can you just not be contrary and admit that we (society) treat children different based on gender from the moment they are born?
Never claimed that society never treats kids differently based on gender....
I am claiming that there are parents these days make it a point not to force gender roles on kids and are still seeing kids playing with the same gender. Your generalization is an obsolete concept as many parents these days try very hard to avoid assigning gender roles to their kids.
My liberal wife and her liberal relatives giving my daughter boy clothes and boy toys and exposing her to only gender neutral educational programming has done little to change her acting like a girl and her (she is the only girl among the kids) boy cousins preferring to play with each other because she hates all the roughhousing.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Never claimed that society never treats kids differently based on gender....I am claiming that there are parents these days make it a point not to force gender roles on kids and are still seeing kids playing with the same gender. Your generalization is an obsolete concept as many parents these days try very hard to avoid assigning gender roles to their kids.
My liberal wife and her liberal relatives giving my daughter boy clothes and boy toys and exposing her to only gender neutral educational programming has done little to change her acting like a girl and her (she is the only girl among the kids) boy cousins preferring to play with each other because she hates all the roughhousing.
Do you and your wife behave in gender neutral ways? Do all the other adults behave in gender neutral ways? Do her peers? Does everyone on TV or in whatever media she is exposed to?
Of course some parents nowadays try to be less imposing with gender stereotypes, it doesn't mean that the children aren't aware of different treatments and expectations of genders, even at very young ages.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Do you and your wife behave in gender neutral ways? Do all the other adults behave in gender neutral ways? Do her peers? Does everyone on TV or in whatever media she is exposed to?Of course some parents nowadays try to be less imposing with gender stereotypes, it doesn't mean that the children aren't aware of different treatments and expectations of genders, even at very young ages.
There will always be tiny gender nuances that can't be avoided. But that is no longer "society creating an imposed rift" but genders freely expressing their gender identity (there is nothing wrong with that).
And them being aware that genders are different and wanting to play with kids of the same gender has anything to do with mysoginism nor has anything to do with any kind of society-imposed rifts.