Originally posted by ILS
I'm not going to respond to a short essay, just make your argument.
It's rather easy: Kun is heralded as one of the most powerful and the most dangerous Sith Lord in history. His applied force abilities in combat situations eclipse pretty much everything else seen in the mythos in both offense and defense and he backs that up with incredible talent and unique weapon / style in lightsaber combat. So he could probably take out anybody in the opposite team.
For the strike team, correct me if I'm wrong here; but didn't Vitiate increase in power after the Revan novel?
How does one "increase in power" by seperating his spirit / attention to different places? He most certainly didn't grow in power in a sense that he increased his personal force abilities that would be applicable in combat. He did certainly grow in power, when it came to "invunerability" and "knowledge" because of what he went through and did in the years passing between the novel and his TOR incarnation.
For turning Revan and Malak; I recall that happened on a large dark side nexus, which Vitiate would be considerably amped by while Revan and Malak [who IIRC were already leaning toward the dark side due to their actions in the war] would be considerably affected by it.
Seriously?
Every single action of Sidious happened to be boosted by the unbalancing of the Force towards the Dark Side. Shall we now declare each and every single feat of Sidious void, because of that small fact, that probably had a greater input on his actions than any "nexus" in the mythos ever had for another Force user? Do you take that "nexus" and "boost" thing into consideration, when referring to Sidious, who fed power from the inhabitants of Byss, where he performed pretty much all of his DE feats (e.g. Force Storms)? Most certainly not.
So why apply that to Vitiate, who was obviously capable of dominating everyone and everywhere at his will. Because it just suits your argument?
I'm basically asking you: what can Vitiate as of the Revan novel do off of a dark side nexus. When you do that I'll either agree with you or put up a case for Maul.
Once again: No double-standards. So you tell me what Sidious can do without profiting from an unbalancing of the Force. You may consider his showings in the Plagueis novel for detail, before the unbalancing occurs, which would be all you have. I have a guy that conquered a planet, eliminating his Sith Lord father in the process, before he turned 13. The same guy who conducted the greatest Dark Side ritual the Galaxy had ever seen, turning himself pretty much immortal, who was on his way to destroy all live in the Galaxy to turn himself to a god. Your turn. But please don't attempt to talk Sidious up using quotes written down in the early 90s, proclaiming he's the most powerful of a set of two Sith Lords, because I have pretty much destroyed every argument in that direction countless times in the past 10 years.
I believe the showings you're referring to took place on/near the Star Forge, which by Ant's admission in his Malak respect thread would have amplified Malak; and presumably weakened those Jedi as well. Add that to onto this query - are the Jedi even of considerable power? - and I'd say it's not something that puts Malak above Maul; the guy who has repeatedly handed a powerful Jedi like Obi-Wan Kenobi his ass with telekinesis.
You mean like simply force stunning Revan, which alone is beyond anything Maul has ever done with the Force or, maybe, overpowering Bastilla with the Force? Just asking. And, by the way, now it is enough to be "near" a supposed "nexus" to benefit from it? Cute. Last time I checked, of course, Malak was just "boosted" by the Star Forge when siphoning the life energy by the Jedi he captured during his final fight with Revan. If you have a different set of information it would be nice to share it. And the Jedi would be weakened? So...a weakened Revan managed to defeat an amped Malak and you're still attempting to argue against the person who turned both of them into his slaves?
And as I said to Ant; Malak lost his jaw to Darth Revan in a good fight and lost to KotoR!Revan with massive advantages on his side and massive disadvantages on Revan's side. That doesn't equate to them being particularly close in my book.
Said the guy who's favorite in this fight managed to get sliced in half by a Padawan? Who was almost killed by one before (Darsha Assent)? Who, despite of all his effort, still didn't manage to kill Kenobi? The guy who needed an army to capture Dooku? The guy who asked Talzin to make use of his strength, because, apparently - unlike Dooku - he himself had no way to utilize it fighting against Sidious? Very impressive, indeed. 🙄
I just don't understand how repeatedly losing to Revan is meant to compete with:--Being accoladed as one of the most skilled, highly trained and dangerous Sith Warriors in all of history.
A notion contradicted multiple times by the person who actually trained him...
--Being highly regarded by Darths Sidious and Plagueis for both his speed and swordsmanship.
Two people that, despite of that praise, called him "nothing but a tool."
--Comfortably defeating one of the most skilled swordmasters the Jedi have produced in 25,000 years twice, the second time while he had the aid of his apprentice.
Since pretty much everybody with a name and a lightsaber in the PT appears to be "one of the most skilled swordmasters the Jedi have produced in 25,000 years", I begin to question the value of such statements. Especially, when they are made exclusively from the perspective of characters within the respective fictional universe. Perhabs, Qui-Gon's skill with the lightsaber have been hyped rather much. Is that possible?
--Fighting evenly with and even at times defeating CW!Obi-Wan Kenobi; the Jedi's foremost master of Soresu who has defeated numerous powerful duelists himself.
"Foremost master of Soresu" appears to be a nice description when about 99.999 percent of them practiced different styles. And Kenobi has defeated "numerous powerful duelists"? When has that happened?
--Curbstomping Savage Opress, who in turn has defeated highly skilled combatants such as Asajj Ventress and Plo Koon.
Well. Defeating your nigh untrained brother in "combat" is certainly most impressive. Not. I mean. Seriously. Savage strikes a pose that might be him about to strike at his brother and gets instantly owned by the latter. I'm not sure if he even tried to defeat his sibling.
Then add in Maul's better proven physicality as a fighter in terms of strength, speed, endurance etc, superior technical skill with a lightsaber, superior tactical abilities, superior versatility.. I'm not seeing how Malak really compares.
Because, like the majority of people here, you're entirely incapable of utilizing abductive reasoning. I won't spoon-feed you the reasoning behind ranking Malak like I do, because you can figure that out for yourself. Instead, I will try the much easier path:
Malak simply force stuns Maul and cuts him down. Since Maul is less powerful and knowledgeable than Revan, whom Malak has done that to, and didn't demonstrate any kind of force desfense so far, he would go down. End of story.
And on a sidenote...
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sounds like your position relies on lots of bias and speculation tbh. [/B]
I can't stop laughing... 😄
[quote]Nai
He most certainly didn't grow in power in a sense that he increased his personal force abilities that would be applicable in combat.
Nai
Every single action of Sidious happened to be boosted by the unbalancing of the Force towards the Dark Side.
Nai
The same guy who conducted the greatest Dark Side ritual the Galaxy had ever seen,
Nai[/quote]
Do you take that "nexus" and "boost" thing into consideration, when referring to Sidious, who fed power from the inhabitants of Byss, where he performed pretty much all of his DE feats (e.g. Force Storms)?
Can't help but notice a few unsubstantiated claims. 👆
Nai
I can't stop laughing... 😄
Indeed. excellent
Imbalance in the Force negatively impacted attunement of Jedi to the Force. Otherwise, Jedi would have seen through Palpatine's guise and eliminated him. Honestly, Palpatine seems to have benefited immensely from this imbalance.
"I think it is time we inform the senate that our ability to use the force has diminished." (Mace Windu)
"Only a Dark Lord of the Sith knows of our weakness. If informed the senate is, multiply our adversaries will." (Yoda)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Can't help but notice a few unsubstantiated claims. 👆
Did you?
Regarding Vitiate's power
I really wonder how exactly Vitiate should have become more powerful in person, when we consider the splitting of his power to various places, namely:
[list]
[*]his original body, hidden somewhere, retaining a part of his power.
[*]The Voice, wielding much of Vitiate's personal force power.
[*]The Children, all imbued with Vitiate's power, numbering in the hundreds.
[*]The Hands, all imbued with Vitiate's power, although he also seems to feed on them, too.
[*]The Imperial Guard, with all guardsman being able to draw upon the strength of the Emperor should the need arise to do so.
[/list]
Overall, I have no doubt that Vitiate became "more powerful". But his "acting body" (the Voice) ultimately has to share the power with numerous other "vessels" of a part of Vitiate's original force powers. Not that this argument is useful in any way: Vitiate has been described as godlike in both incarnations. Maybe you could just accept that instead of attempting to argue the varying degrees of his uberness.
Regarding the unbalancing of the Force
I find it rather laughable, that you call that "ubsubstantiated" when pretty much the entire capitle in "Darth Plagueis" featuring the unbalancing of the Force, does nothing but describe how Plagueis is suddenly able to do things he couldn't do before, just because that shift had happened, namely:
[list]
[*]ressurecting / killing Venamis by manipulating his midi-chlorians.
[*]manipulating the midichlorians in his own body in order to heal it.
[*]mastering abilities he "lacked talent for" according to his own master - nameley Sith sorcery.
[*]increasing his own midichlorian count through manipulation of the Force.
[/list]
He is even described as "drunk on newfound power". I don't see why that increase in abilities and power wouldn't apply to Sidious, too (with possible exception of the midichlorian count increase). And if they apply, then we need to attribute much of Sidious actual force feats to that singular event taking place. And in some cases, he was benefitting from this shift twice, as it also decreased the Jedi's ability to use the Force, meaning that all instances in which Sidious had to fight Jedi happened in a situation in which he had an advantage (boost) while the Jedi were suffering from a disadvantage (decrease of ability to use the Force).
Regarding the "Greatest Dark Side ritual"
I'm rather sure, that you want to give that to Plagueis / Sidious, and, yes, I see the point in that and it could certainly be argued. However: Vitiate alone was about to exterminate all live in the Galaxy. I would consider the action of using the Force in order to wipe it From existance (technically, this would be what happens when all live in the Galaxy ends) or "becoming" the Force (by absorbing the energy of all that lives) a little bit greater than what Plagueis and Sidious did together. That Vitiate - ultimately - failed doesn't have an impact on my judgement there. I'm just measuring intended effect an the - apparent - ability to archive it.
Regarding Sidious being "boosted"
Aside from the above: It certainly is part of your knowledge, that Sidious' drained the inhabitants of Byss. He is in orbit of the planet for the greater part of the action happening in the first DE comic. And if I'm not mistaken, the "action" includes all known applications of his Force Storms (just as example).
Enough "substance" for you? 😉
Originally posted by Nai
[b]Regarding the unbalancing of the Force
I find it rather laughable, that you call that "ubsubstantiated" when pretty much the entire capitle in "Darth Plagueis" featuring the unbalancing of the Force, does nothing but describe how Plagueis is suddenly able to do things he couldn't do before, just because that shift had happened, namely:[list]
[*]ressurecting / killing Venamis by manipulating his midi-chlorians.
[*]manipulating the midichlorians in his own body in order to heal it.
[*]mastering abilities he "lacked talent for" according to his own master - nameley Sith sorcery.
[*]increasing his own midichlorian count through manipulation of the Force.
[/list]He is even described as "drunk on newfound power". I don't see why that increase in abilities and power wouldn't apply to Sidious, too (with possible exception of the midichlorian count increase). And if they apply, then we need to attribute much of Sidious actual force feats to that singular event taking place. And in some cases, he was benefitting from this shift twice, as it also decreased the Jedi's ability to use the Force, meaning that all instances in which Sidious had to fight Jedi happened in a situation in which he had an advantage (boost) while the Jedi were suffering from a disadvantage (decrease of ability to use the Force). [/B]
Very interesting. Hope to see some attempts at rebutting this.
Originally posted by Nai
Did you?[b]Regarding Vitiate's power
I really wonder how exactly Vitiate should have become more powerful in person, when we consider the splitting of his power to various places, namely:[list]
[*]his original body, hidden somewhere, retaining a part of his power.
[*]The Voice, wielding much of Vitiate's personal force power.
[*]The Children, all imbued with Vitiate's power, numbering in the hundreds.
[*]The Hands, all imbued with Vitiate's power, although he also seems to feed on them, too.
[*]The Imperial Guard, with all guardsman being able to draw upon the strength of the Emperor should the need arise to do so.
[/list] [/b]
Your argument assumes that Vitiate was somehow diminished or diluted by the access of his underlings. Not only have you failed to provide a shred of evidence to support that notion, you gloss over {not omit, but gloss over} the fact that we factually know Vitiate draws on the power of certain subordinates in turn. Why would he draw power off them to compensate for the power they draw off him? Seems a bit pointless, doesn’t it? Not to mention the fact that it contradicts everything we know about Vitiate: that he would share some sort of finite power that would, in turn, leave him personally vulnerable to any degree.
Originally posted by Nai
Overall, I have no doubt that Vitiate became "more powerful". But his "acting body" (the Voice) ultimately has to share the power with numerous other "vessels" of a part of Vitiate's original force powers.
This ability is nothing new. The Emperor imbued various dark side adepts with power {Dark Empire II} and his Hands “drew strength from [Palpatine’s] vast reserves of power” {The Essential Guide to the Force, The Dark Side Sourcebook}. Was Palpatine diminished as a result? We could speculate ad infinitum that the Emperor’s energies were diluted or depleted as he corrupted Byss or by funding the so-called shroud of the dark side that increased gradually even long after the death of Plagueis. But much as with the case of Vitiate, there’s no evidence to support that notion and so the entire conversation becomes pointless.
{FYI, The Essential Guide to the Force passage that discusses the Hands drawing on the Emperor's power comes from Mara Jade circa 12 ABY. The same Mara Jade who has spent years in the company and in close proximity of people like Kyp Durron and Luke Skywalker himself. Interesting that she would still consider Palpatine's own reserves of Force energy "vast" when compared with such references, no? 😉 }
Originally posted by Nai
Not that this argument is useful in any way: Vitiate has been described as godlike in both incarnations. Maybe you could just accept that instead of attempting to argue the varying degrees of his uberness.
So what? Palpatine has been described in similarly colorful terms, but as you've been wont to point out on such occasions: such adjectives for Vitiate smack very much of hyperbole.
Nai
[b]Regarding the unbalancing of the Force
I find it rather laughable, that you call that "ubsubstantiated" when pretty much the entire capitle in "Darth Plagueis" featuring the unbalancing of the Force, does nothing but describe how Plagueis is suddenly able to do things he couldn't do before, just because that shift had happened, namely: [/b]
A questionable conclusion to say the least, especially when you've yet to provide any evidence to support it.
Nai
ressurecting / killing Venamis by manipulating his midi-chlorians.
Which was only ever attempted after the ritual. Your point would stand if he'd attempted to resurrect Venamis prior to the ritual and had failed.
Nai
manipulating the midichlorians in his own body in order to heal it.
Nai
increasing his own midichlorian count through manipulation of the Force.
After dedicating himself to internalizing the ability he'd employed against Venamis, a process which had taken "several months" with "no progress."
Nai
mastering abilities he "lacked talent for" according to his own master - nameley Sith sorcery.
Three such abilities were named: flight, invisibility, and fold space. And all I recall is the statement that Plagueis "had never succeeded in duplicating any of those phenomena." Where is the passage that details his mastery of them?
Nai
He is even described as "drunk on newfound power".
He's described as such after he increased his own midi-chlorian count, which took place at least "several months" after the ritual itself.
Nai
I don't see why that increase in abilities and power wouldn't apply to Sidious, too (with possible exception of the midichlorian count increase).
You haven't provided any evidence for Plagueis's own empowerment via that particular ritual, let alone Sidious's. Though the text does note that Palpatine spent a considerable time training Maul, visiting Sith worlds, and studying Sith texts and holocrons in Plagueis's archives... which would readily explain an increase in power.
Nai
And if they apply, then we need to attribute much of Sidious actual force feats to that singular event taking place. And in some cases, he was benefitting from this shift twice, as it also decreased the Jedi's ability to use the Force, meaning that all instances in which Sidious had to fight Jedi happened in a situation in which he had an advantage (boost) while the Jedi were suffering from a disadvantage (decrease of ability to use the Force).
All the evidence I've ever seen indicates that Jedi meditation and perception was clouded by the dark side, not that their short-term precognition or combat prowess was diluted.
Nai
[b]Regarding the "Greatest Dark Side ritual"
I'm rather sure, that you want to give that to Plagueis / Sidious, and, yes, I see the point in that and it could certainly be argued. However: Vitiate alone was about to exterminate all live in the Galaxy. I would consider the action of using the Force in order to wipe it From existance (technically, this would be what happens when all live in the Galaxy ends) or "becoming" the Force (by absorbing the energy of all that lives) a little bit greater than what Plagueis and Sidious did together. That Vitiate - ultimately - failed doesn't have an impact on my judgement there. I'm just measuring intended effect an the - apparent - ability to archive it.[/b]
Your argument first assumes without evidence provided that he would have indeed succeeded in his efforts... after 8 thousand Sith Lords consumed and 14 centuries of study and preparation towards its success on a dark side nexus.
In comparison, Plagueis and Sidious actually succeeded in compelling an unprecedented cosmological shift that is galaxywide in its implications... in mere months.
Hardly equitable. 👆
Nai
[b]Regarding Sidious being "boosted"
Aside from the above: It certainly is part of your knowledge, that Sidious' drained the inhabitants of Byss.[/b]
For an "energy pool" to sustain alchemical "dark side experiments" as I recall from Book of Sith.
Nai
He is in orbit of the planet for the greater part of the action happening in the first DE comic. And if I'm not mistaken, the "action" includes all known applications of his Force Storms (just as example).
Unless Da Soocha V is a somewhat clumsy anagram of Byss and Hutt Space is another term for the Deep Core, you would indeed be mistaken. 😉
Nai
Enough "substance" for you? 😉
Only the kind you were abusing before you posted this. 😛
"The Jedi tried to cap the power of this shrine, but there's leakage. It’s not just Sidious; it's the power of history, it's the residue of what's left of the dark side there." - James Luceno
To be fair Sidious did use the 6,000 year old Sith Shrine under the Jedi Temple to cloud the Jedi's vision and hide his presence:
Since the quote function doesn't seem to work properly...
@Tempest
Your argument assumes that Vitiate was somehow diminished or diluted by the access of his underlings. Not only have you failed to provide a shred of evidence to support that notion, you gloss over {not omit, but gloss over} the fact that we factually know Vitiate draws on the power of certain subordinates in turn. Why would he draw power off them to compensate for the power they draw off him? Seems a bit pointless, doesn’t it? Not to mention the fact that it contradicts everything we know about Vitiate: that he would share some sort of finite power that would, in turn, leave him personally vulnerable to any degree.
First off: I've stated that Vitiate does draw power from his Servants (the Hands).
Secondly: If you imbue persons with a part of your power, it logically follows that the power left for yourself is less than you had before that process. And we know, that Vitiate did store power in his Children and the otherwise not-force-sensitive members of his Imperial Guard. Likewise we do know, that a part of his original power was with his original body (which would have died otherwise) while he was acting through the Voice. And the link between him and the Servants seems to be a symbiotic one, rather than him "draining" their strength in the Force, given that they receive immortality and can read his thoughts based on that connection.
Thirdly: I don't see how that would contradict what we know about Vitiate's persona. He wanted to become a god, to be immortal and all this actions - set into motion after his confrontation with Revan - were obviously designed to ensure that immortality. With success, given that the Emperor is still around after being defeated at the hands of the HoT, even despite of the fact, that a huge amount of his "safety measures" have been disabled (e.g. the Children being hunted down by the Barsen'thor). And I'm not saying that this would make him "vunerable" - just less powerful in person than he was before.
This ability is nothing new. The Emperor imbued various dark side adepts with power {Dark Empire II} and his Hands “drew strength from [Palpatine’s] vast reserves of power” {The Essential Guide to the Force, The Dark Side Sourcebook}. Was Palpatine diminished as a result? We could speculate ad infinitum that the Emperor’s energies were diluted or depleted as he corrupted Byss or by funding the so-called shroud of the dark side that increased gradually even long after the death of Plagueis. But much as with the case of Vitiate, there’s no evidence to support that notion and so the entire conversation becomes pointless.{FYI, The Essential Guide to the Force passage that discusses the Hands drawing on the Emperor's power comes from Mara Jade circa 12 ABY. The same Mara Jade who has spent years in the company and in close proximity of people like Kyp Durron and Luke Skywalker himself. Interesting that she would still consider Palpatine's own reserves of Force energy "vast" when compared with such references, no? wink }
I'm well aware of that fact. But the "various" dark side adepts where two if I recall that correctly, which doesn't exactly come close to "hundreds" of children. Still that would have a small impact on Sidious' force reserves. "Corrupting Byss" however wasn't a result of Sidious using his energies to do so - that occurs normally, when a Sith is presence on a planet for a longer time-period. And I was unaware of an "gradual increase" of the "shroud of the dark side". Where is that mentioned? All I've heard so far is, that the Dark Side grew stronger because of the violence of the Clone Wars which can hardly be attributed to Sidious personal force powers.
And I'm not seeing any "comparison" between the like of Luke and Kyp in Mara's statement regarding the Force reserves of Palpatine. Probably, because it isn't there in the first place. 😉
So what? Palpatine has been described in similarly colorful terms, but as you've been wont to point out on such occasions: such adjectives for Vitiate smack very much of hyperbole.
Unlike Sidious, Vitiate has drained the power of several thousand Sith Lords and at least one planet filled with force sensitives to back up that claim. Which is why I find it rather odd, that you still think, Sidious wields more "raw power" than his TOR counterpart.
A questionable conclusion to say the least, especially when you've yet to provide any evidence to support it.
Labeling my reasoning a "post hoc"-fallacy is, simply put, ridiculous.
"All that mattered was that, almost a decade earlier, they had succeeded in willing the Force to shift and tip irrevocably to the dark side. Not a mere paradigm shift, but a tangible alteration that could be felt by anyone strong in the Force, and whether or not trained in the Sith or Jedi arts" - Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Chapter 24.
This are Plagueis musings on how he has - probably - become the most powerful Sith in history and he explicitly points to that single event leading to that result. I don't see much to argue there. Especially, since he made a similar statement in the opening of the storyline:
"But had Sith like Naga Sadow and Exar Kun genuinely been more powerful, or had they benefited from the fact that the dark side had been more prominent in those bygone eras?" - Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Chapter 5.
And he also attributes all of his later "powers" to that single event taking place, despite of his "work" on them.
Which was only ever attempted after the ritual. Your point would stand if he'd attempted to resurrect Venamis prior to the ritual and had failed.
Again. This is ridiculous. Plagueis was conducting experiments on Venamis for [i]decades at that point in time, and probably never thought it possible to bring him back from death, before the shift occured. The mere fact that he tries this on the day of the shift is testament to the fact that he felt a noticeable increase in his power that enabled him to perform this task:
"On the same day they had allowed Venamis to die. Then, by manipulating the Bith's midi-chlorians, which should have been inert and unresponsive, Plagueis had ressurected him. The enormity of the event had stunned Sidious into silence[...]But having gained the power to keep another alive hadn't been enough for him." - Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Chapter 24.[/i]
He even thinks that he has gained that special power on that very day and I don't see much reason to assume that this wasn't the case, just because it doesn't fit into your personal view of the SW universe. 😉
After dedicating himself to internalizing the ability he'd employed against Venamis, a process which had taken "several months" with "no progress."
Excuse me. He just noticed no progress, until - suddenly - he did notice one:
"He began to sense that not only were his damaged tissues healing, but his entire body was rejuvenatig itself." - Darth Plagueis, Chapter 24.
Emphasis mine. It stands to reason that his initial attempts to manipulate his own midi-chlorians were successful, but he just didn't notice it, because the "visible" effects didn't surface before.
Three such abilities were named: flight, invisibility, and fold space. And all I recall is the statement that Plagueis "had never succeeded in duplicating any of those phenomena." Where is the passage that details his mastery of them?
He's not saying he mastered them, but noticing that - after the shift of balance - none of them are out of his grasp.
"Plagueis understood, too, that there were no powers beyond his reach; none he couldn't master through an effort of will." - Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Chapter 24.
Just after that, he describes himself as the most powerful Sith and attributes that to the shift in the balance. The context makes it pretty clear, that, to him, all his new found abilities and powers and the ability to master ones previously out of his reach, stem from the shift of the Force towards the Dark Side. And I don't see any reason to contradict him.
He's described as such after he increased his own midi-chlorian count, which took place at least "several months" after the ritual itself.
Wrong.
First: There is no mention of him increasing his midi-chlorian count. That is just used as "proof" for his increase in power and abilities:
"Regardless, eight long years later, Plagueis remained convinced that he was on the verge of absolute success. The evidence was in his own increased midi-chlorian count; and in the power he sensed in Sidious when he had finally returned to Sojourn. The dark side of the Force was theirs to command, and in partnership they would someday be able to keep each other alive, and to rule the galaxy for as long as they saw fit." - Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Chapter 24.
Again, Plagueis attributes all of that to the shift of balance, even noticing the power in Sidious, which - of course - had absolutely nothing to do with his own experiments / studies of the Force. Which leads to the conclusion that the shift of the balance towards the Dark Side increased the power of both Sith instantly. Which needs to be considered when judging their feats from that point on.
You haven't provided any evidence for Plagueis's own empowerment via that particular ritual, let alone Sidious's. Though the text does note that Palpatine spent a considerable time training Maul, visiting Sith worlds, and studying Sith texts and holocrons in Plagueis's archives... which would readily explain an increase in power.
See above. And I wonder what Sidious should have found in Plagueis's archives and on Sith worlds, that he didn't already found in the decades he was already studying under his master. And we know that he started to visit the respective places after completing his training (ca. 52 BBY) with just few yielding useable results (as Plagueis himself mentioned before that most of them had been plundered already).
All the evidence I've ever seen indicates that Jedi meditation and perception was clouded by the dark side, not that their short-term precognition or combat prowess was diluted.
"I think it is time we inform the senate that our ability to use the force has diminished." - Mace Windu, Attack of the Clones.
I don't see any specific mentioning of "meditation and perception" there. Mace just talks about a diminishing of the Jedi's ability to use the Force. It's a general statement. Which is only logical, if you consider that the balance was - noticeably - tipped towards the Dark Side. It is, of course, debateable, to what extend this would affect the Jedi, but given a considerable increase of power among the Sith, one would think, that a likewise noticeable effect took place among the Jedi - just in the opposite direction. At least, we have to keep in mind that the ability of the Jedi to use the Force was diminished - which would help anybody fighting Jedi in the time frame in question.
Your argument first assumes without evidence provided that he would have indeed succeeded in his efforts... after 8 thousand Sith Lords consumed and 14 centuries of study and preparation towards its success on a dark side nexus.
Given that even in SoR, Darth Marr keeps shitting his pants because a returning Emperor would destroy Revan, the Sith afterwards and continue to exterminate all life in the Galaxy, I'd say that, as far as the storytelling in SW:ToR is concerned, he would have succeeded.
And nice that you note the 8,000 consumed Sith Lords and the 14 centuries of Dark side study, which are - according to yourself - not enough to put Vitiate on one level with Sidious, much less above him.
In comparison, Plagueis and Sidious actually succeeded in compelling an unprecedented cosmological shift that is galaxywide in its implications... in mere months.Hardly equitable.
For all we know, Plagueis and Sidious were mere conduits for the Will of the Force, given that the Force did nothing to prevent that shift from happening. It just came up with Anakin to restore balance again - after the very same Chosen One played a major role in the downfall of the Jedi. Yet, the Force was sending both the HoT and the Barsen'thor into the fray, specifically to stop the plans of the Emperor, before he could conduct his ritual. At least, the Emperor was clearly not acting in accordance of the Will of the Force, but actively acting against it and I'm not sure one could say the same about the Sith duo.
For an "energy pool" to sustain alchemical "dark side experiments" as I recall from Book of Sith.
You probably recall that from the "Dark Empire Sourcebook" or "The Essential Guide through the Force". While I don't see a reason why a pool of power shouldn't be used for any other purpose, once it is there.
Unless Da Soocha V is a somewhat clumsy anagram of Byss and Hutt Space is another term for the Deep Core, you would indeed be mistaken.
I could swear that I was specifically talking about his Force Storms and those just happen when he is in orbit around Byss (transporting Luke from Coruscant to the place, later attacking the fleet with his last application of the ability). Can't recall him doing much on Da Soocha V, aside from shattering some stuff (lightsaber / metal piece being dropped on his head) with the Force. Correct?
Only the kind you were abusing before you posted this.
Bio-produced black tea from a friend in India and shortbread made by a friend from Wales? You're welcome.
Speaking of that, I recently saw the Ziost stuff. What was so great about him? He basically started off as a small presence when he was a spirit, and needed to possess soldiers and stuff so they can start killing off a bunch of people on Ziost so he could feed from their deaths and yeah he took over some Jedi commandos or whatever but he needed to like, do that to them unconscious IIRC. I guess eventually with all that energy he fed and the energies on Ziost he was able to do what he did on Nathema? But not as badly? Am I missing something? Cause yeah, barring making Monoliths I wasn't all that impressed.