Originally posted by StealthRanger
IOW mostly abuse of speed tropes (or lack of) or unquantified garbage, which means little until you scour the series for an actual quantifiable feat, which puts their abilities into perspective
Do you have even ONE shred proof of this faster than thought superspeed ppl keep saying?
What is the basis of this argument of yours? You disagree with SM's proof but refuse to post proof of your own to refute it...
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Do you have even ONE shred proof of this faster than thought superspeed ppl keep saying?What is the basis of this argument of yours? You disagree with SM's proof but refuse to post proof of your own to refute it...
Superman's speed feats are well beyond common knowledge so I don't need to post feats
Although, suppose to quote Star because I'm lazy and haven't watched much Reeves/Routh Superman beyond the first movie and Superman returns in like, 2010
How in the Hell do you think Clark/Superman was able to go on a date with both Lois and Lacy in Superman 4 without massive superspeed? I'm sure you saw the part in original Superman when Lois first interviewed him at her place. After Superman left from interview it was just 2 or 3 seconds later that he was knocking on her door as Clark. How was Clark able to catch that bullet when he was with Lois and they were getting mugged if he didn't have superspeed?
Hell, even if we ignore that, Superman pushes the moon, which is energy outputs well beyond most characters on the opposing team (barring the upper tier MCU guys based on hype and powerscaling anyways)
Originally posted by StealthRanger
Superman's speed feats are well beyond common knowledge so I don't need to post featsAlthough, suppose to quote Star because I'm lazy and haven't watched much Reeves/Routh Superman beyond the first movie and Superman returns in like, 2010
Hell, even if we ignore that, Superman pushes the moon, which is energy outputs well beyond most characters on the opposing team (barring the upper tier MCU guys based on hype and powerscaling anyways)
IF they are common, then you should have no trouble posting them.
Quoting Star is the entire basis of your logic? Even when he himself haven't posted anything at all? And when even he himself has admitted that the only possible speed "feats" Reeve Superman has was done mostly off screen (and are thus debatable and not quantifiable). Please pause and let that sink in for a second.
What does Superman pushing a moon have anything to do with him having faster-than-thought superspeed?
Originally posted by Nibedicus
IF they are common, then you should have no trouble posting them.
Superman's infamous flying around the earth several times to the point where he turns back time, unless that's just going to be ignored because "muh average showings"
Quoting Star is the entire basis of your logic? Even when he himself haven't posted anything at all?
Listing feats is a better way of debating the just nitpciking a random fight and going "hurr hurr dun look fast to me so it isn't, even though any random jackass can do this for any fiction that's not the Suggsverse but not that I'd know or care"
And when even he himself has admitted that the only possible speed "feats" Reeve Superman has was done mostly off screen (and are thus debatable and not quantifiable).
Catching a bullet is far from "off screen", and if he can be at several dates in a single time span, then that's a pretty clearcut feat of speed (only other alternatives are being a teleporter (which Supes isn't), being omnipresent (which again, Superman is not), being able to make fake copies or avatars of himself (also not one of Superman's abilities))
(and are thus debatable and not quantifiable)
Depends on what kind of mental gymnastics you're willing to do for that one
What does Superman pushing a moon have anything to do with him having faster-than-thought superspeed?
Never said it had anything to do with speed, saying that even if he ignore his speed, his energy output is massive enough to the point where he could prolly vaporise a majority of the opposing team with the shockwaves of his punches
Originally posted by StealthRanger
Superman's infamous flying around the earth several times to the point where he turns back time, unless that's just going to be ignored because "muh average showings"Listing feats is a better way of debating the just nitpciking a random fight and going "hurr hurr dun look fast to me so it isn't, even though any random jackass can do this for any fiction that's not the Suggsverse but not that I'd know or care"
Catching a bullet is far from "off screen", and if he can be at several dates in a single time span, then that's a pretty clearcut feat of speed (only other alternatives are being a teleporter (which Supes isn't), being omnipresent (which again, Superman is not), being able to make fake copies or avatars of himself (also not one of Superman's abilities))
Depends on what kind of mental gymnastics you're willing to do for that one
Never said it had anything to do with speed, saying that even if he ignore his speed, his energy output is massive enough to the point where he could prolly vaporise a majority of the opposing team with the shockwaves of his punches
Flying speed (that took him time to build up to) is not reaction speed and certainly does not prove that he can move faster-than-thought.
Listing "feats" ignores context and is dependent on the person's interpretation of the said showing. This is makes for biased debating. For balanced debating, one has to post said showing using direct evidence (aka clips of movie).
Well, that's certainly impressive. Congrats. Superman is now Ozymandias level. Still doesn't seem like "faster than thought" to me, tho. I don't recall this "several dates at the same time" instance. Pls post clips.
Except that's not what we're debating is it? Plus, (as a courtesy, I will humor you) he'll never have the chance to. QS can just conk him with the mind gem, Xavier can just freeze him and ppl immune to physical attacks (Shadowcat) will be unaffected and keep one or two major players (Xavier) immune long enough (for Xavier to freeze Supes). Prep gives them so many options that it's not even worth it to list all the possibilities.
Originally posted by StealthRanger
being able to make fake copies or avatars of himself (also not one of Superman's abilities))
This is actually not accurate. Here is Reeve Superman creating a copy of himself:
Originally posted by juggerman
Snip
You know what, juggy? You're right, this IS a waste of time. It has become circular at this point (heck half the stuff you posted, I've already addressed and I don't feel like re-posting the same arguments). I'm gonna play grown up and move this debate forward with the actual posters making an argument as we've established that a) You're unwilling to make an argument (even tho you strongly imply said argument). b) You're unwilling to post proof to back up your argument. c) unable to accept (even tho you cannot refute) arguments and proof presented before you for the sole reason that you don't want to.
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Superman was shown to move the moon with relative ease to cause an eclipse. If he's bloodlusted, he could just push Moon into the Earth, killing pretty much everybody.
Team has one week prep. One sided prep. With some of the most intelligent characters in fiction.
Not unreasonable for them to anticipate this and go the extra-dimensional route.
Or to phase themselves. Or to just do this off planet with the space gem opening a portal to Earth.
With just so many possibilities, it's not worth mentioning.
OR Xavier can just freeze him before he can act. OR QS/Flash can just mind gem him before he can move.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Team has one week prep. One sided prep. With some of the most intelligent characters in fiction.Not unreasonable for them to anticipate this and go the extra-dimensional route.
Or to phase themselves. Or to just do this off planet with the space gem opening a portal to Earth.
With just so many possibilities, it's not worth mentioning.
OR Xavier can just freeze him before he can act. OR QS/Flash can just mind gem him before he can move.
Or hell, Kitty and Bishop/Logan can just keep playing Groundhog's Day until they figure out a way to beat him, if their initial plans don't work. Including Shadowcat actually gave the team virtually limitless prep/resets, and being intangible means Supes can't very well remove her from the playing field very easily, if he would even know to look for her out of the hundreds of billions (if not trillions) of opponents he is facing.
People seem to think he is just fighting a few jedi, mutants and Avengers. He is fighting those entire Universes/Settings. So just in terms of MCU, that's Earth, the Asgardians and the other races of the Nine Realms, the Kree, Celestials (which we know exist, thanks to GotG), infinity stones, Thanos and all his resources, all the other races and factions etc. and that isn't even getting into the other Universes involved in this matchup. From the OP:
must face and destroy everything in these verses
Originally posted by Nibedicus
You know what, juggy? You're right, this IS a waste of time. It has become circular at this point (heck half the stuff you posted, I've already addressed and I don't feel like re-posting the same arguments). I'm gonna play grown up and move this debate forward with the actual posters making an argument as we've established that a) You're unwilling to make an argument (even tho you strongly imply said argument). b) You're unwilling to post proof to back up your argument. c) unable to accept (even tho you cannot refute) arguments and proof presented before you for the sole reason that you don't want to.
Well that's what happens when you try to push stances onto people that they don't have. Meh.