Superman(Reeves) vs MCU, DCCU, Arrowverse, XMCU, Star Wars and Hancock

Originally posted by FrothByte
What was that phrase: "In the world of the blind, a one-eyed man is king"?

In this case, even if we can't provide feats of Prof. X using TP on an alien, at least we have feats of him using TP. It may only be half an argument but it's still better than having zero feats to back up Superman not being affected by TP.

A 5 out of 10 is still better than a 0 out of 10.

The reason that doesn't work is because I'm not arguing Superman has any sort of TP resistance. Like I wouldn't argue Spot the dog had any either, but I wouldn't just assume X's TP works on dogs without some proof. Him just having TP doesn't mean it affects all manner of life equally

Originally posted by FrothByte
What was that phrase: "In the world of the blind, a one-eyed man is king"?

In this case, even if we can't provide feats of Prof. X using TP on an alien, at least we have feats of him using TP. It may only be half an argument but it's still better than having zero feats to back up Superman not being affected by TP.

A 5 out of 10 is still better than a 0 out of 10.

You forget, we also have proof that Superman has no resistance feats. So its really a 6.7 out of 10 vs a 0 out of 10.

Originally posted by juggerman
The reason that doesn't work is because I'm not arguing Superman has any sort of TP resistance. Like I wouldn't argue Spot the dog had any either, but I wouldn't just assume X's TP works on dogs without some proof. Him just having TP doesn't mean it affects all manner of life equally

Meh. It's like me saying "glass half empty" and you saying "glass half full". In the end, it boils down to the same thing: You're arguing that X's TP won't work on Superman unless proven otherwise.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Meh. It's like me saying "glass half empty" and you saying "glass half full". In the end, it boils down to the same thing: You're arguing that X's TP won't work on Superman unless proven otherwise.

I'm being asked to prove a negative. An impossibility really. I'm not saying X's TP wouldn't work. I'm saying since we can't know either way, given that X has never shown TP capabilities over anything other than humans/mutants, we shouldn't assume he can. In other words it is a unknown and shouldn't be used because of that.

Regarding this thread Xavier isn't needed. Team can win without him. I feel like people assumed I was trying to give Supes the win by questioning Xavier and I'm not. I just personally don't think it makes sense to argue either way since it would be assumptions and guesswork regardless of which stance is taken

Originally posted by juggerman
SW affecting humans and aliens shows a much wider range in the ability to affect things. If she can affect humans and aliens, which you agree are more different than humans to mutants, then the burden is met imo. Xavier has not affected things that are likely much different than humans to mutants hence the issue

Wrong, I said (and pls pay attention) that aliens differ from each other moreso than humans do to mutants. A human the an alien when you look at things from a perspective of an alien.

Meaning that SW affecting one should not be seen as proof of affecting each other if we go by your logic.

Sigh. This is why I don't think you are listening (or is probably just fishing for replies). You are regressing to your old logic without rebutting against logic/proof already presented to you. Let me break things down to you one last time:

1) Humans and aliens differ from each other due to biology.

2) Humans and mutants differ from each other due to biology.

3) Your argument is not that Xavier CANNOT affect aliens, it is that he limited only to humans/mutants. Because if you argue that Xavier cannot affect aliens, the burden shifts on you to prove that.

4) Mutants have shown so much biologically/physical diversity and are so different compared to humans (abilities that range from basic physical powers to mind powers to healing and go as far as being able to change entire body makeup) that it is within a reasonable position to assume that he is not limited to his targets due to biology.

Originally posted by juggerman
The question was to gauge X's limitations in general. Basically I was looking for something like "X can affect everything under thing point and Supes falls in that category" or "X can affect anything that meets these requirements" or something that was can have a clear idea about.

Again, the answer to that is above. I've answered that question many times. You just seem to never read my answers. But let me answer it again just to get it thru your thick skull.

What is Xavier's limitation? It is his target's potential willpower or mental makeup NOT its biology (meaning being an alien does not constitute an immunity to his power). The same way that Dr M's physical powers (matter manip) are limited by the target's physical durability or physical makeup.

Originally posted by juggerman
I asked about Bruce Almighty because it does have relevance in just how high X's powers reach.

Which was a loaded question that has no relevance to this thread, especially when we've already stated what the limitations were.

Originally posted by juggerman
You and others are very vague on how high his powers should be reach cause on one hand you say he can affect Superman and basically any being with a mind so long as they have no TP resistance feats but you refused to acknowledge a cap. My question was to see if in fact there was a cap iyo by bringing up one of the most powerful beings in cinema.

We didn't refuse to acknowledge a cap, we actually ask what Superman's TP resistance "feats" were in order for us to determine IF he has shown anything that place him above said limit. It is actually YOU that refuse to present any evidence or argument at all.

And yes, when a target has no showings of resistance to something, one cannot argue that he might not be affected by it. Especially when your argument boils down to a criterion that IS NOT relevant to the ability at hand (you are arguing that Reeveman not being affected by a MENTAL power due to PHYSICAL biology, if you cannot see the stupidity of this, then there is little point going forward).

Originally posted by juggerman
Also asking a question in response to a question without directly giving an answer to said question would be considered refusing to answer. I didn't say you didn't respond, I said you did answer it. You didn't.

Or it can be seen as answering the question, albiet indirectly. Just because you interpret something one way, doesn't mean that it is the only interpretation possible, eh?

Originally posted by juggerman
The whole point of this was to inquire why X was given the "benefit of the doubt" just how far it went. You don't want to answer that for some reason

Actually I did answer this "benefit of the doubt" statement. You just never replied to it, or most probably never even read it. facepalm

Originally posted by juggerman
but you want me to accept it reaches high just enough to not question it. I don't want to do that. If you don't want to continue with this direction, and it doesn't seem like you do, then that's fine. You can stop replying and hopefully someone can help me figure this out here or in the other thread. I mean it was the reason I requested the mod ruling.

Except that ppl have been answering your statement (and reasonably at that) and you just never seem to read our replies or bother to try and understand them (since here I am again answering the same replies that I have already answered.

Originally posted by juggerman
I don't reply to everything because as you've pointed out it is a circular argument. It'll just keep going on. I'm not arguing against your ideas here. I don't necessarily think you are wrong in thinking X can affect Superman in theory.

It's a circular debate because you do not address the replies presented to you and you keep regressing to your old, already-addressed logic.

Originally posted by juggerman
I've asked what feats X has affecting aliens and you using other people's feats or trying to convince me that alien minds wouldn't be that different from humans/mutants minds(even tho you just said aliens would be in this post here) doesn't do it for me. So we can agree to disagree for all I care but I'd rather not go in circles about ever little thing

See? Another statement I already answered (but will answer again because you don't seem to ever get it).

His MENTAL "feats" in affecting aliens stems from his ability to MENTALLY affect targets of a wide PHYSICAL biological makeup (mutants) which seem to point out that his power is NOT limited to physical biology.

Originally posted by juggerman
If not responding to every point bothers you I can make sure to do so in the future.

Now, this is just stupid. You've GOT to be trolling now. YOU accuse me of not answering questions to try and undermine my argument and go around and say that I'M the one being bothered here?

Well, the only thing I'm bothered about is how you seem to be a hypocrite in every statement you make. Requiring proof while not presenting proof yourself. Claiming "you are not really arguing" but here you are: no proof to your logic but repeatedly (without fail) implying that Xavier would not be able to affect Superman. Sayin "Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think you're right (ergo, wrong). Lolwut? Claiming that ppl don't answer your questions while not replying to entire paragraphs of their arguments. Claiming "no limits fallacy" when making a "appeal to ignorance" fallacy over and over and over again.

SMFH.

I feel like these responses are getting very long winded. Hopefully we can end this soon.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Wrong, I said (and pls pay attention) that aliens differ from each other moreso than humans do to mutants. A human the an alien when you look at things from a perspective of an alien.

Meaning that SW affecting one should not be seen as proof of affecting each other if we go by your logic.

I simply took your point to the next logical step. If aliens differ from each other more so than mutants do from humans, then it is only logical to say aliens differ from humans and mutants more so than humans and mutants differ from each other. I assumed that was pretty clear and was building on that. I’m sorry if that bothered you or you felt as tho I was trying to misrepresent your statement.. That was not my intent.

As far as SW goes, it again shows that she is not hindered to just humans. Charles has nothing that tells us for sure if humans and mutants are the extent.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Sigh. This is why I don't think you are listening (or is probably just fishing for replies). You are regressing to your old logic without rebutting against logic/proof already presented to you. Let me break things down to you one last time:

…

3) Your argument is not that Xavier CANNOT affect aliens, it is that he limited only to humans/mutants. Because if you argue that Xavier [b]cannot affect aliens, the burden shifts on you to prove that.

4) Mutants have shown so much biologically/physical diversity and are so different compared to humans (abilities that range from basic physical powers to mind powers to healing and go as far as being able to change entire body makeup) that it is within a reasonable position to assume that he is not limited to his targets due to biology. [/B]

3. That’s not my argument. Never has been. That is the argument you and others have placed in lieu of what I actually say.

4. Fair enough, but…

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Again, the answer to that is above. I've answered that question many times. You just seem to never read my answers. But let me answer it again just to get it thru your thick skull.

(Well that’s just not nice)

Originally posted by Nibedicus
What is Xavier's limitation? It is his target's potential willpower or mental makeup NOT its biology (meaning being an alien does not constitute an immunity to his power). The same way that Dr M's physical powers (matter manip) are limited by the target's physical durability or physical makeup.

Mental makeup can be determined by biology. Like in Star Wars for example, some species are totally immune to Jedi mind tricks simply because they are that species. There are other examples of this in cinema and stories as well.

Has willpower been established as a potential deterrent for Xavier’s TP in this universe? For Shaw, nothing was really given to us besides Shaw powering up and Xavier saying he couldn’t hold him for long. Then Frost’s defense was he diamond skin. The final time I recall him having an issue was Raven. And iirc that was due to him being weakened. Later he was stronger but chose to let her make the decision on her own. I could be remembering that last bit wrong since I’ve only seen the full movie once.

Which opens up another question. How are we measuring “willpower” here? I mean take for instance John McClane. He would have to have tremendous willpower to do all the stuff he does and not quit. To keep pushing himself through impossible odds and coming out on top. That could be said for just about any action star too. Do you consider that kind of willpower acceptable to block X? If not, what would classify? Honest question.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Which was a loaded question that has no relevance to this thread, especially when we've already stated what the limitations were.

It has relevance to Xavier tho. That’s the whole thing. And it wasn’t loaded at all. I was/am trying to figure out at what level do X’s power stop working. Bruce Almighty was a high that we could work back from.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
We didn't refuse to acknowledge a cap, we actually ask what Superman's TP resistance "feats" were in order for us to determine IF he has shown anything that place him above said limit. It is actually YOU that refuse to present any evidence or argument at all.

You did tho which is why I brought up Bruce Almighty. Is there a tier rating for movies like they have over at the comic vs? What I meant by cap was is there a tier he couldn’t mind rape? He had issues with Shaw and since nothing was stated about that besides the fact he had just absorbed a nuke. So perhaps after a certain power level?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
And yes, when a target has no showings of resistance to something, one cannot argue that he might not be affected by it. Especially when your argument boils down to a criterion that IS NOT relevant to the ability at hand [b](you are arguing that Reeveman not being affected by a MENTAL power due to PHYSICAL biology, if you cannot see the stupidity of this, then there is little point going forward). [/B]

Physical biology can affect mental makeup as stated earlier. I can give other examples besides the Star Wars one if needed

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Or it can be seen as answering the question, albiet indirectly. Just because you interpret something one way, doesn't mean that it is the only interpretation possible, eh?

You didn’t answer at all. You only said Superman isn’t god. That doesn’t tell me whether you think it can affect him or not. Again that was only to try to establish a cap, not to use him not affecting a deity to equal not affecting an alien.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Actually I did answer this "benefit of the doubt" statement. You just never replied to it, or most probably never even read it. facepalm

Except that ppl have been answering your statement (and reasonably at that) and you just never seem to read our replies or bother to try and understand them (since here I am again answering the same replies that I have already answered.

It's a circular debate because you do not address the replies presented to you and you keep regressing to your old, already-addressed logic.

Most of these replies are in reply to a stance I haven’t taken. I am not arguing X’s TP won’t work. I said we don’t know and we don’t. You and others feel him affecting humans/mutants is enough to assume he can affect more than humans/mutants. I don’t. Not really a big deal and not one I was trying to dwell on either. I started to try to gauge what limits he had(besides a TP immunity) and I kept being told I was trying to give Supes an immunity. I’m not.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
See? Another statement I already answered (but will answer again because you don't seem to ever get it).

His MENTAL "feats" in affecting aliens stems from his ability to MENTALLY affect targets of a wide PHYSICAL biological makeup (mutants) which seem to point out that his power is NOT limited to physical biology.

So can he affect dogs and cats and fish and the like iyo?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Now, this is just stupid. You've GOT to be trolling now. YOU accuse me of not answering questions to try and undermine my argument and go around and say that I'M the one being bothered here?

I didn’t try to undermine anything. You didn’t answer questions in regards to what I was trying to figure out. And your responses do seem like you are bothered with all the “thick skull” “stupid question” “SMFH” stuff. If you aren’t great but that’s the way it’s coming off.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Well, the only thing I'm bothered about is how you seem to be a hypocrite in every statement you make. Requiring proof while not presenting proof yourself. Claiming "you are not really arguing" but here you are: no proof to your logic but repeatedly (without fail) implying that Xavier would not be able to affect Superman. Sayin "Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think you're right (ergo, wrong). Lolwut? Claiming that ppl don't answer your questions while not replying to entire paragraphs of their arguments. Claiming "no limits fallacy" when making a "appeal to ignorance" fallacy over and over and over again.

SMFH.

My stance was there wasn’t proof either way. How can I present proof when I don’t think there is any? That doesn’t really fit.
Also I’m not saying you’re wrong or not right at all. I don’t think there is enough evidence one way or the other. In situations like that, when there isn’t proof on either side, it should be left alone. I.e. “Since we don’t know if X’s powers would work here or not, someone else does something else.” You feel differently and that’s fine. I’m not trying to convince you of anything

Hancock trips Blood lusted Superman when he tries to turn backtime then the team exposed him to the red radiation removing his powers. That is when Darth Vader puts Supes head up his $$.

Darth Vader's not remotely on the level of being able to do anything to Supes

And Hancock is nowhere fast enough to stop Superman in motion

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Darth Vader's not remotely on the level of being able to do anything to Supes

And Hancock is nowhere fast enough to stop Superman in motion

And what proof have you that Hancock is not fast enough to catch Superman?

Originally posted by juggerman

1. I feel like these responses are getting very long winded. Hopefully we can end this soon.

I simply took your point to the next logical step. If aliens differ from each other more so than mutants do from humans, then it is only logical to say aliens differ from humans and mutants more so than humans and mutants differ from each other. I assumed that was pretty clear and was building on that. I’m sorry if that bothered you or you felt as tho I was trying to misrepresent your statement.. That was not my intent.

2. As far as SW goes, it again shows that she is not hindered to just humans. Charles has nothing that tells us for sure if humans and mutants are the extent.

3. That’s not my argument. Never has been. That is the argument you and others have placed in lieu of what I actually say.

4. Fair enough, but…

(Well that’s just not nice)

5. Mental makeup can be determined by biology. Like in Star Wars for example, some species are totally immune to Jedi mind tricks simply because they are that species. There are other examples of this in cinema and stories as well.

6. Has willpower been established as a potential deterrent for Xavier’s TP in this universe?

7. For Shaw, nothing was really given to us besides Shaw powering up and Xavier saying he couldn’t hold him for long. Then Frost’s defense was he diamond skin. The final time I recall him having an issue was Raven. And iirc that was due to him being weakened. Later he was stronger but chose to let her make the decision on her own. I could be remembering that last bit wrong since I’ve only seen the full movie once.

8. Which opens up another question. How are we measuring “willpower” here? I mean take for instance John McClane. He would have to have tremendous willpower to do all the stuff he does and not quit. To keep pushing himself through impossible odds and coming out on top. That could be said for just about any action star too. Do you consider that kind of willpower acceptable to block X? If not, what would classify? Honest question.

9. It has relevance to Xavier tho. That’s the whole thing. And it wasn’t loaded at all. I was/am trying to figure out at what level do X’s power stop working. Bruce Almighty was a high that we could work back from.

10. You did tho which is why I brought up Bruce Almighty. Is there a tier rating for movies like they have over at the comic vs? What I meant by cap was is there a tier he couldn’t mind rape? He had issues with Shaw and since nothing was stated about that besides the fact he had just absorbed a nuke. So perhaps after a certain power level?

11. Physical biology can affect mental makeup as stated earlier. I can give other examples besides the Star Wars one if needed

12. You didn’t answer at all. You only said Superman isn’t god. That doesn’t tell me whether you think it can affect him or not. Again that was only to try to establish a cap, not to use him not affecting a deity to equal not affecting an alien.

13. Most of these replies are in reply to a stance I haven’t taken. I am not arguing X’s TP won’t work. I said we don’t know and we don’t. You and others feel him affecting humans/mutants is enough to assume he can affect more than humans/mutants. I don’t. Not really a big deal and not one I was trying to dwell on either. I started to try to gauge what limits he had(besides a TP immunity) and I kept being told I was trying to give Supes an immunity. I’m not.

14. So can he affect dogs and cats and fish and the like iyo?

15. I didn’t try to undermine anything. You didn’t answer questions in regards to what I was trying to figure out. And your responses do seem like you are bothered with all the “thick skull” “stupid question” “SMFH” stuff. If you aren’t great but that’s the way it’s coming off.

16. My stance was there wasn’t proof either way. How can I present proof when I don’t think there is any? That doesn’t really fit.

17. Also I’m not saying you’re wrong or not right at all. I don’t think there is enough evidence one way or the other. In situations like that, when there isn’t proof on either side, it should be left alone. I.e. “Since we don’t know if X’s powers would work here or not, someone else does something else.” You feel differently and that’s fine. I’m not trying to convince you of anything

1. Except that this whole line of reasoning is irrelevant as I have established that Prof X's powers are not limited by biology. If you were listening at all, you'd know that I simply pointed it out to establish the double standards of your logic with regards to being ok with SW's powers because she affected one type of alien.

2. Except that I've already established that since mutants differ so much from each other that it proves that Xavier is not limited to a specific biology.

3. Total cop out. How stupid do you think the ppl here are? Saying: "Charles has nothing that tells us for sure if humans and mutants are the extent." is IMPLYING that Charles is limited to humans and mutants. You repeatedly hinder the debate by repeatedly stating this same implication AND THEN avoid having to provide proof or a specific argument to begin with because you know you can't defend your position. So you do a total cop out and stall the debate that ppl want to move forward. Seriously, make an argument or get out of the way and let us move the debate forward.

4. You know what's not nice? Wasting ppl's time.

5. SW is the exception to the rule. The fiction in SW SPECIFICALLY notes that their powers are biology in nature (midi-chlorians) and that it is not simply internal but is a connection to a specific universal energy (the Force). And force sensitivity can bestow a resistance to force attacks/abilities. It is as much "space magic" than it is "mind powers". Nice try using an obvious exception to the rule to try and make your case tho. 👆

6. It is the limit that we can be reasonably established to determine who he can affect.

7. Using exceptions to the rule who are given resistances by virtue of their powers to establish an argument. Nice! 👆

8. This is case-to-case. We determine their willpower via quantifiable "feats" of mental strength. If Xavier was blocked by someone who simply had the willpower to resist pain and suffering (Wolverine for example), then this would actually be a measurable and provable limit to his abilities.

9. No it doesn't. The answer was provided to you. Read between the lines, bro.

10. We don't know how Shaw's powers work. We do know that he's lived a long time, that he's been hanging out with a telepath and even at his strongest, Xavier still froze him. Anything else is speculation and (again, this seems to be your MO, attempt make an argument by not claiming an argument at all) meaningless. We don't know if his abilities amp his natural mental resistance. We do know power level isn't it as he has had as little trouble affecting Magneto as he has other weak feebs.

11. Go ahead.

12. The answer was right there. All you needed was a little interpretational skill. Claiming something over and over just because you don't like it or get it does not make it true.

13. You're not giving Supes an immunity. You are limiting Xavier's ability to specific targets based on biology. <----- This is the stance you've taken. The proof is in your methodology. The fact that you to man up to it because you can't possibly defend it is telling.

14. Already addressed this. Thank you for skipping another one of my replies.

15. You are trying to undermine it. The fact that you cling to this false claim like it's some sort of life preserver to your entire argument shows bad form.

16. Already addressed this, too. Thank you for skipping an ENTIRE paragraph about it. Sigh.

17. Actually, ppl have exhaustively provided both evidence and arguments that STRONGLY imply that his powers would work. In a HYPOTHETICAL debate, this is all that is needed. You not accepting it, isn't our problem. What our problem is, however, is your obsession to stall this debate just because you have a problem with the arguments provided (yet can provide no arguments to rebut it).

juggerman is a bit of a movie Superman fanboy...he actually argued that MOS Superman had an invisible aura that protected him from damage and he claimed that the movie actually showed the aura. the audience just couldn't see the aura because it was invisible.

IOW, his proof that the power existed is that you couldn't see it.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1. Except that this whole line of reasoning is irrelevant as I have established that Prof X's powers are not limited by biology. If you were listening at all, you'd know that I simply pointed it out to establish the double standards of your logic with regards to being ok with SW's powers because she affected one type of alien.

2. Except that I've already established that since mutants differ so much from each other that it proves that Xavier is not limited to a specific biology.

3. Total cop out. How stupid do you think the ppl here are? Saying: "Charles has nothing that tells us for sure if humans and mutants are the extent." is IMPLYING that Charles is limited to humans and mutants. You repeatedly hinder the debate by repeatedly stating this same implication AND THEN avoid having to provide proof or a specific argument to begin with because you know you can't defend your position. So you do a total cop out and stall the debate that ppl want to move forward. Seriously, make an argument or get out of the way and let us move the debate forward.

4. You know what's not nice? Wasting ppl's time.

5. SW is the exception to the rule. The fiction in SW SPECIFICALLY notes that their powers are biology in nature (midi-chlorians) and that it is not simply internal but is a connection to a specific universal energy (the Force). And force sensitivity can bestow a resistance to force attacks/abilities. It is as much "space magic" than it is "mind powers". Nice try using an obvious exception to the rule to try and make your case tho. 👆

6. It is the limit that we can be reasonably established to determine who he can affect.

7. Using exceptions to the rule who are given resistances by virtue of their powers to establish an argument. Nice! 👆

8. This is case-to-case. We determine their willpower via quantifiable "feats" of mental strength. If Xavier was blocked by someone who simply had the willpower to resist pain and suffering (Wolverine for example), then this would actually be a measurable and provable limit to his abilities.

9. No it doesn't. The answer was provided to you. Read between the lines, bro.

10. We don't know how Shaw's powers work. We do know that he's lived a long time, that he's been hanging out with a telepath and even at his strongest, Xavier still froze him. Anything else is speculation and (again, this seems to be your MO, attempt make an argument by not claiming an argument at all) meaningless. We don't know if his abilities amp his natural mental resistance. We do know power level isn't it as he has had as little trouble affecting Magneto as he has other weak feebs.

11. Go ahead.

12. The answer was right there. All you needed was a little interpretational skill. Claiming something over and over just because you don't like it or get it does not make it true.

13. You're not giving Supes an immunity. You are limiting Xavier's ability to specific targets based on biology. <----- This is the stance you've taken. The proof is in your methodology. The fact that you to man up to it because you can't possibly defend it is telling.

14. Already addressed this. Thank you for skipping another one of my replies.

15. You are trying to undermine it. The fact that you cling to this false claim like it's some sort of life preserver to your entire argument shows bad form.

16. Already addressed this, too. Thank you for skipping an ENTIRE paragraph about it. Sigh.

17. Actually, ppl have exhaustively provided both evidence and arguments that STRONGLY imply that his powers would work. In a HYPOTHETICAL debate, this is all that is needed. You not accepting it, isn't our problem. What our problem is, however, is your obsession to stall this debate just because you have a problem with the arguments provided (yet can provide no arguments to rebut it).

1. You have not shown his power affects anything other than humans and mutants. That’s still the rub for me

2. Mutants are still mutants and very close to humans. Doesn’t tell me he can affect things farther away.

3. Not a cop out at all. You are trying to pin a stance to me I haven’t taken. No one is stopping you from moving the debate forward. You can at any time reply to anyone else in the thread and debate whatever you’d like. My stance is that there isn’t enough evidence in my book to say one way or the other. You disagree. Fine. But Xavier is not the end all to this match up

4. If you feel like you are wasting your time then that’s on you. No one is forcing you to keep this up. I am perfectly fine with agreeing to disagree.

5. It’s not an exception as this resistance was established well before the Force was changed to the midi-chlorians.

6. Based on?

7. That’s all we have to go on. All I did was point out what happened in film.

8. So how would we determine if really anyone could resist? Besides physically resisting TP, how can we determine if someone had willpower enough to potentially resist?

9. Between the lines don’t answer my questions tho. That’s why I keep asking. Clearly I’m not picking up on any hints you feel you are leaving so a straight answer would certainly speed this up.

10. Shaw was much more powerful than Magneto tho. Also again, I do not think there is enough evidence to say for sure. I don’t knock you for thinking there is but I personally do not. I am not making a claim, I’m explaining my own thoughts on the subject. Stop claiming I’m making a claim about this when I’m not.

11. Trueblood has it. Vampire are immune to TP due to just what they are. Some older versions of Aquaman were limited to just marine life like sea mammals but not land mammals. I would also call those biological differences but maybe I’m wrong.

12. I can make an assumption but I’d rather have a clear answer since apparently I’m getting so much wrong here

13. I’m not limiting him. I’m not convinced one way or the other is all.

14. You’re welcome?

15. Not at all. You are the one making all the claims here, not I.

16. You’re welcome?

17. I’m not stalling anything. No one is forcing you to continue to try to get me to back a stance I haven’t taken. You are free to stop at any time

Is this still going? Haven't we all agreed Superman loses?

Originally posted by FrothByte
And what proof have you that Hancock is not fast enough to catch Superman?

Probably because Superman has overwhelmingly better feats I guess?

Like the one I posted that showed Superman's fighting speed?

That you never bothered to quantify, just abuse the whole style over substance bullshit

Of course using your own logic I could easily say Hancock and various other characters on the opposing team are only low superhuman at the very highest by nitpicking any random thing

The clip speaks for itself.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
That you never bothered to quantify, just abuse the whole style over substance bullshit

Of course using your own logic I could easily say Hancock and various other characters on the opposing team are only low superhuman at the very highest by nitpicking any random thing

He's not nitpicking "any random thing". He is posting Superman fighting and it shows no instance of this faster-than-thought superspeed SOME ppl are saying he fights in.

If you have any evidence to the contrary, post it so we can debate.

IOW mostly abuse of speed tropes (or lack of) or unquantified garbage, which means little until you scour the series for an actual quantifiable feat, which puts their abilities into perspective

Translation: I know it doesn't show him fighting at superspeed, but I'm going to pretend that it does.