Windu & Yoda vs Tyranus & Sidious

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well the last 2 points are pretty much facts:

I disagree with the implication of the use of the lightning being "meant to appear as defence against maces "assassination attempt" the dialogue before and during the lightning makes this clear" (especially since his exact worse were "no YOU die" - implying that it was more an offensive move than defensive). Thus, as no direct reference of his motivation was made clear, it is by no means "fact". I will agree that the whole exchange was to try and trick Anakin into thinking they Jedi's were rebelling, however.

That is, unless you can quote the exact line of dialogue on the script or post timestamps on when this happened.

The closest to "fact" would be the last statement. As that is exactly what happened. However, using this as proof on his assertion that Palpatine threw the fight is poor use of evidence as (again) no clear motivation was ever mentioned.

That is, unless one starts inserting one's own meanings onto what happened.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well the last 2 points are pretty much facts:

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well the last 2 points are pretty much facts:

For the first one.... You don't say, then prove it as if it were a fact.

For the second one - This is the only one that could be consider a "fact", even then who cares, it's not proof he threw the fight.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm quite serious when I say this, NONE of what you posted is PROOF Sids threw the fight. That is literally conjecture on your part that these unrelated thing have anything to do with him throwing the fight.

Impartial as always I see.

when Anakin walks in, Sidious says "Anakin, see I told you it would come to this, the Jedi are taking over!"

while shooting the lightening he accuses Mace of being a traitor then says "don't let him kill see" and "I can't hold on any longer, I'm too weak"

he is feigning weakness the whole time.

and to rebut your claim that he's trying to kill Windu by shouting "you will die" he wasn't wrong.... he died seconds later.... And as I said before, Mace wanted to arrest him up until the point of the lightning usage, Palpatines plan needed Windu to attempt to kill him so he pushed him further to get that reaction out of him.

Or didn't you notice that Anakins tipping point was that exact moment where Mace was 100% going to kill the Chancellor?? Saying "he must live" and "he must be tried, this isn't the Jedi way"...

So no proof.. just more conjecture on your part? I'm starting to think you believe your own theories and conjecture are a viable form of proof... they aren't

Relentless: you understand that when you're debating something, you need proof right? Not theories?

Can you even tell the difference? I'm serious here.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So no proof.. just more conjecture on your part? I'm starting to think you believe your own theories and conjecture are a viable form of proof... they aren't

lol, youre too thick headed to argue with, I'm just wasting my time here, these are things that happen right on the screen, they aren't conjecture or some conspiracy theory, its right there on the screen bud. like i said before, this argument is going nowhere. You have your side and I have mine lets just leave it at that.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Relentless: you understand that when you're debating something, you need proof right? Not theories?

Can you even tell the difference? I'm serious here.

so youre telling me Sidious doesnt say those things? youre saying that this sequence of events doesnt take place during the movie?? Must be watching a different movie than me then

all you have as "proof" is Mace kicking Sidious' lightsaber from his hand. Thats it, no context for why that happened or what lead up to it or, most importantly what happened afterwards.

Originally posted by relentless1
so youre telling me Sidious doesnt say those things? youre saying that this sequence of events doesnt take place during the movie?? Must be watching a different movie than me then

The sequence of events like the dialogue, sure.

The meanings, you attached to it? Your theories? Not so much.

I'm sure you can differentiate which parts are simple retelling of the sequence of events (w/c are true) and which parts are your theories (conjecture). Hopefully, at least.

Originally posted by relentless1
all you have as "proof" is Mace kicking Sidious' lightsaber from his hand. Thats it, no context for why that happened or what lead up to it or, most importantly what happened afterwards.

And the fact that he was knocked on his butt, back against the wall and had his own lightning turned against him w/c in turn melted his face? Did you read the thread or did you just ignore literally pages of it hoping ppl will be too tired of this crap to keep remind you?

Our argument uses the scenes as they happened without attaching meaning to them beyond what was shown on screen. While you attach almost random meanings to every single scene just to make it fit your narrative.

again youre just looking at it the way you want to, theres plenty on screen that shows Sidious tanked that fight on purpose, look at McDiarmids face when he's begging not to be killed, his creepy little eye is looking at Anakins reaction to the situation... you guys are really that dull that you need to be walked through every scene in a movie hey? Everything needs to be spelled out for you.

Originally posted by relentless1
again youre just looking at it the way you want to, theres plenty on screen that shows Sidious tanked that fight on purpose, look at McDiarmids face when he's begging not to be killed, his creepy little eye is looking at Anakins reaction to the situation... you guys are really that dull that you need to be walked through every scene in a movie hey? Everything needs to be spelled out for you.

"Looking at it the way you want to"

Ironic.

"Creepy eye looking at Anakin's reaction to the situation"

Thus

"He tanked the fight"

.............

SMH.

You understand what a leap of logic is right?

Would love to hear that kind of logic in a court room.

Your honor, his EYES PROOOOVEE that he threw the fight! It is indisputable faaaactzz!"

The facepalms alone would be worth it.

Let me ask you this relentless.... Regardless of your theory about what happened or the things you've extrapolated from unrelated things you tie to him throwing the fight. Forgot that for a moment. Do you HONESTLY believe there is more evidence he threw the fight than that he lost the fight?

yeah i do otherwise i would be her going around in circles with you numbskulls, lol don't try to act as if I'm the one thats crazy here, the mere fact that you don't even entertain the possibility that a guy that can SEE INTO THE FUTURE can't do up a scenario that puts his potential apprentice into a do or die situation shows me that you just don't care to see anything other then your own biased opinion

Originally posted by relentless1
yeah i do otherwise i would be her going around in circles with you numbskulls, lol don't try to act as if I'm the one thats crazy here, the mere fact that you don't even entertain the possibility that a guy that can SEE INTO THE FUTURE can't do up a scenario that puts his potential apprentice into a do or die situation shows me that you just don't care to see anything other then your own biased opinion

Sooo you're telling us that Sids would foolishly (and possibly needlessly) risk his life simply to turn/trick a possible apprentice even though:

1) There was never an scene where he was shown to foresee what would happen with the Windu battle (unlike when it was explicitly mentioned that he sensed Anakin was in danger or in TCW near the end of RoTS)

2) There are actually better ideas out there than having yourself disarmed, knocked on your ass with your face melted off while staring at a tip of a light saber just to turn/trick an obviously gullible apprentice already as far gone as Anakin was. Especially when Windu is a Jedi that has precog himself. I mean what if Anakin hesitated? Was too slow? What if Windu figured him out?

3) Sith/Jedi precog isn't exactly 100% accurate such as when he failed to predict that the very apprentice you say he risked his life for would have his legs lopped off and would suffer damage that would kill most of his potential (the very potential that you say he risked his life for). Or when the very same apprentice (that he risked his life for) THREW him to his death down a shaft? Or failed to predict whether or not his kid would turn to the dark side (I mean did he really goading Luke to go ahead and kill his disarmed dad was a very good idea? Not really the mastermind manipulator there).

Your argument is weak, founded on conjecture that is based on silly baseless theories that have no substance. All it has is your blind insistence of it that crumbles when asked to provide any kind of actual proof.

Numbskulls indeed....

Edit. Or that you're just trolling.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Relentless: you understand that when you're debating something, you need proof right? Not theories?

Can you even tell the difference? I'm serious here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This also needs to be shown to emperor Sidious as he does the same thing all the time. Acts like his theories are evidence when they aren't while he ignores the evidence.

Your one to talk since you're notorious for making claims with no proof.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Your one to talk since you're notorious for making claims with no proof.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Untrue. My claims are always backed by evidence. You just speculate and say prove you wrong despite being unable to prove anything yourself.

Please you've never proved one thing in your worthless life. I've been in how many debates now with you, and how many have you lost? All of them. All the khan threads, all you say is Khan guns them down without actually saying how he does that. He has to get past there force powers, but no you just say order 66 when they were caught off guard, or you just rant on an on and say he guns them down without having any evidence. Not even made up evidence. You have no evidence to back your claims. At least relentless does.