I would agree that the amp from Dooku would likely not be as strong as the one he got from Sids... That I would agree with. I would also agree that he wouldn't be AS motivated, and essentially as pissed off, as he was with Sids. My view is, that they are close already.. peers even... ANY amp Mace would get, even slight, would tip the scales in his favor more times than not. There is simply no logical conclusion that can be drawn other than that imo. Imo it's a logical one and fair one
This just came to me. What if Vaaapd is what brings Windu to Dooku's level? Before Vaapad Dooku was able to defeat Mace. Mace's Vaapad only allowed him to stalemate Sidious and he won't be getting anywhere close to that amp. Dooku is a clam individual, which is reflected by his style. Surgical and precise, not just all sporadic like Sidious. To put it to more professional terms, Dooku's Makashi isn't the best form to use Vaapad agaisnt. Notice Sidious uses more aggressive forms such as Ataru and Juyo, one of those being very close to the dark side. Dooku's is more controlled, and surgical and calm. Much like his personality. Notice he doesn't yell at his enforcers, at least much. This all translates to Vaapad. He wouldn't receive a big enough amp to make Vaapad effective enough. Since you brought up Vjun and the novel, I will say this. Vaapad as never worked for mace ever really. All it has done is give him stalemates, even against people like deepa and bulq. He stalemated Sidious, however if he were to fight him without his own internal anger, he would have lost.
the whole Vappad/ Mace boost argument falls flat for several reasons.
1. nowhere in the established new canon is there any mention of "combat forms" (if there is please feel free to correct me with proof)
2. the new canon is based off the movies and tv shows, also companion novels unless they contradict the movies or tv shows.
3. the only reason Mace was made to look good is because Sam Jackson negotiated to not let Mace go out "like a punk" if it wasn't for him he'd have been killed off same as the other three jedi that wandered into the chancellors office that day.
bottom line is I never bought that whole Vaapad makes him stronger thing and when he "beat" Sidious that was a calculated move by Palpatine to turn Anakin...
think about how events went down :
-Palpatine reveals his Sith side to Anakin, KNOWING he'd go and tell the Jedi about him, otherwise why put yourself into the position of being unarmed against Anakin, one of the greatest swordsman at that time?
-Windu shows up with three other masters, one of which had some extensive moments in the Clone Wars cartoon (Fisto) making him seem like a pretty powerful Master; Sidious cuts the three of them down in seconds. The fact that it looked like they were just standing there waiting for Sidious to kill them only speaks to the cinematographers (failed) attempt to show off the Emperors vastly superior speed.
-Windu kicks Plapatines lightsaber out of his hand ONE SECOND before Anakin walks in...thats also some huge coincidence???? Anakins appraisal of the scene is Palpatine on the ground at the tip of Maces saber and at his mercy, right where Sidious wanted the scene to be so Anakin would be forced into a quick decision.
-After playing possum, once Anakin chooses and cuts off Maces arm, Sidious leaps back to life and kills Windu with lightning/tossing him thru the window so right there he's blatantly playing the feeble old man in order to gain Anakins sympathy.
and to those that say Im a Sidious fanboy, Yoda would win in a saber duel between them which is why Palpatine lost his saber when fighting in the senate chambers. But I do believe Sidious has the edge on Yoda when it comes to Force powers.
You keep saying over and over that Mace only stalemated sidious, which again, is being disingenuous. I won't rehash the same argument over and over because there is no need. The vast, and I mean vast, majority of evidence clearly and without question supports Mace beat Sidious. So this whole notion that he was only able to stalemate Sids is a flat out lie. He did far more, and better than simply stalemating him.
Second, Vjun is a terrible example to use. Dooku (while amped) lost against an injured Yoda. That only hurts your case more, it doesn't help it.
Next this whole "theory" that the amp brings him to Dooku level is simply ludicrous. Let me explain this one more time so it's crystal clear, Dooku never EVER beat Mace in a real fight. The ONLY reference to him besting him was in sparring. As we know, in real life or fantasy land, sparring counts for very little. To say nothing of the fact, that it only says he bested in him sparring at some point... which is to say... that doesn't mean Mace did win more sparring sessions. It didn't allude to it one way or another. If mace beat Dooku 25 times in sparring... and Dooku one once.. I could still stay Dooku and Yoda were the only ones to best Mace in sparring. Yet, he lost many more times than won. So even that one line doesn't mean much and there is no context to the situation. Nevermind that Mace hadn't even learned Vaapad at that point. It essence that line is utterly meaningless besides it showing that they are very close in sabers.
Originally posted by relentless1
the whole Vappad/ Mace boost argument falls flat for several reasons.1. nowhere in the established new canon is there any mention of "combat forms" (if there is please feel free to correct me with proof)
2. the new canon is based off the movies and tv shows, also companion novels unless they contradict the movies or tv shows.
3. the only reason Mace was made to look good is because Sam Jackson negotiated to not let Mace go out "like a punk" if it wasn't for him he'd have been killed off same as the other three jedi that wandered into the chancellors office that day.
bottom line is I never bought that whole Vaapad makes him stronger thing and when he "beat" Sidious that was a calculated move by Palpatine to turn Anakin...
think about how events went down :
-Palpatine reveals his Sith side to Anakin, KNOWING he'd go and tell the Jedi about him, otherwise why put yourself into the position of being unarmed against Anakin, one of the greatest swordsman at that time?
-Windu shows up with three other masters, one of which had some extensive moments in the Clone Wars cartoon (Fisto) making him seem like a pretty powerful Master; Sidious cuts the three of them down in seconds. The fact that it looked like they were just standing there waiting for Sidious to kill them only speaks to the cinematographers (failed) attempt to show off the Emperors vastly superior speed.
-Windu kicks Plapatines lightsaber out of his hand ONE SECOND before Anakin walks in...thats also some huge coincidence???? Anakins appraisal of the scene is Palpatine on the ground at the tip of Maces saber and at his mercy, right where Sidious wanted the scene to be so Anakin would be forced into a quick decision.
-After playing possum, once Anakin chooses and cuts off Maces arm, Sidious leaps back to life and kills Windu with lightning/tossing him thru the window so right there he's blatantly playing the feeble old man in order to gain Anakins sympathy.
and to those that say Im a Sidious fanboy, Yoda would win in a saber duel between them which is why Palpatine lost his saber when fighting in the senate chambers. But I do believe Sidious has the edge on Yoda when it comes to Force powers.
Sidious Fanboy!! lol
I'll just start by saying if you ever want to do a battlezone on this topic I would be more than happy to. You know, and I know, you'd lose that. The vast majority of canon evidence lies DIRECTLY on my side... all the sids apologist have in their speculation and theories. Which as you know counts to very little in a debate. All I would literally have to do is cite Lucas without any ambiguity saying Mace OVERCAME sidious. Lucas he uses the term Mace overpowered Sidious. Or I could cite the novel with cites Sidious attacking mace with all his might. Those 3 little canon lines destroy, literally destroy, any theory that Sids threw that fight. It would be that easy. However, if you ever want to try, it's an open challenge.
Please don't talk to me about what's canon and what's not. Do you let Disney control the logical side of your brain to? Disney had ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with the novel and movies in question we are discussing. Not one thing. The ONLY authority on canon was Lucas. So why would we discount Lucas' intention (the creator of the God damn universe) because Disney years later says it's not how they see it. Ummm who gives a flying f what Disney thinks. Sure, going forward, any movies that come out, I respect Disney's authority on canon. They are now in control of what comes out in every medium. If somebody later buys Disney, I also won't through out their version of canon for the movies they make because Legend says they have the authority. All that matters to me is who had the authority at the time it was written or made. That was Lucas. Period, end of story. I hope you're smart enough to use your brain to decide what truly is canon or not, not a company that had nothing to do with something when it was made.
I can go into more detail on this topic if needed. However, I think it's abundantly clear to all, that the evidence lies squarely on my side. I don't care about opinions... I don't care about wild theories.. or coincidences.... I have the authority on the matter directly saying... Mace overpowered Sids.... period end of story. He could've said he threw the fight.. he could've had stover right in the novel he threw the fight. HE DID NO SUCH THING. Not one place in the script.. the novel... the movie does it ever even HINT at him throwing the fight. Not once. That is about as damning as it can get. There is literally no leg to stand on when it comes to this discussion.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiPlease don't talk to me about what's canon and what's not. Do you let Disney control the logical side of your brain to? Disney had ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with the novel and movies in question we are discussing. Not one thing. The ONLY authority on canon was Lucas. So why would we discount Lucas' intention (the creator of the God damn universe) because Disney years later says it's not how they see it. Ummm who gives a flying f what Disney thinks. Sure, going forward, any movies that come out, I respect Disney's authority on canon. They are now in control of what comes out in every medium. If somebody later buys Disney, I also won't through out their version of canon for the movies they make because Legend says they have the authority. All that matters to me is who had the authority at the time it was written or made. That was Lucas. Period, end of story. I hope you're smart enough to use your brain to decide what truly is canon or not, not a company that had nothing to do with something when it was made.
I can go into more detail on this topic if needed. However, I think it's abundantly clear to all, that the evidence lies squarely on my side. I don't care about opinions... I don't care about wild theories.. or coincidences.... I have the authority on the matter directly saying... Mace overpowered Sids.... period end of story. He could've said he threw the fight.. he could've had stover right in the novel he threw the fight. HE DID NO SUCH THING. Not one place in the script.. the novel... the movie does it ever even HINT at him throwing the fight. Not once. That is about as damning as it can get. There is literally no leg to stand on when it comes to this discussion.
Doesnt matter what you say. Once Lucas sold to Disney, it became theirs to do with as they wish. They have said on several occasion that the official mythos has been stripped down to what occurs in the movies and TV shows only. You can hem and haw and argue your point til your blue in the face but the fact remains that all else has been relegated to the "legends" AKA it never happened section of Star Wars lore.
Now having said that, watch ROTS again and try telling me again without lying to yourself of course that Palpatine didn't throw that fight because he 100% did.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You keep saying over and over that Mace only stalemated sidious, which again, is being disingenuous. I won't rehash the same argument over and over because there is no need. The vast, and I mean vast, majority of evidence clearly and without question supports Mace beat Sidious. So this whole notion that he was only able to stalemate Sids is a flat out lie. He did far more, and better than simply stalemating him.Second, Vjun is a terrible example to use. Dooku (while amped) lost against an injured Yoda. That only hurts your case more, it doesn't help it.
Next this whole "theory" that the amp brings him to Dooku level is simply ludicrous. Let me explain this one more time so it's crystal clear, Dooku never EVER beat Mace in a real fight. The ONLY reference to him besting him was in sparring. As we know, in real life or fantasy land, sparring counts for very little. To say nothing of the fact, that it only says he bested in him sparring at some point... which is to say... that doesn't mean Mace did win more sparring sessions. It didn't allude to it one way or another. If mace beat Dooku 25 times in sparring... and Dooku one once.. I could still stay Dooku and Yoda were the only ones to best Mace in sparring. Yet, he lost many more times than won. So even that one line doesn't mean much and there is no context to the situation. Nevermind that Mace hadn't even learned Vaapad at that point. It essence that line is utterly meaningless besides it showing that they are very close in sabers.
Well in all fairness he did. Ok even if the debate on whether Sidious threw the fight or not, take that out the equation. Mace only was able to stalemate Sidious with Vaapad. I'm surprised someone of your "advanced knowledge" doesn't understand that. It was only through Vaaapd was Mace able to contend with Sidious, and only through Shatterpoint was he able to actually get the emperor in his possum position. Well according to you all evidence points to Mace. However you aren't in charge of anything Star Wars related so just your opinion. Yeah mace did do a lot more. He got his arm cut off, then was thrown out of a window.
Actually I never brought Vjun in as a way to debate to Dooku's power. You did. I simply brought it in I case someone questions why I'm using EU sources, and I can just show it to you so I'm not questioned on why.
Not like they had chances to fight. They met I believe twice. Once they fought and Mace comments that he was willing to sacrifice himself showing that he himself knows that Dooku can still beat him. Neither one showed superiority over the other. Well considering during this time period the Sith are hiding not much else to do but spar. So I ask you this, of sparring means nothing then why do you have people like Mace, being known as one of the best Duelsit ever. All he did was spar really. He fought two Sith and he had knowledge of the other and SPARRED to make a style that would be able to stalemate the dark lord. So yes sparring means a lot. While I agree that in sparring you don't have to worry about dieing to the same degree, you employ the same skill set to the same degree depending on the circumstances. If I'm mace and I'm sparring with Yoda. I am going to fight my heart out just to say I beat Yoda. So yes sparring does mean something and hold weight and matter. If they didn't why woudl they do it. Guess what Mace, all he did was Spar. He wasn't in the era of Malgus where lightsaber fighting was an everyday thing. He was born in the era of blasters. Dooku is even criticized for choosing a style that has become obsolete and weak to modern day blasters. Yet he is known as one of the greatest. Same with Dooku. Sparred. Obi, qui Gon, all noted as some of the best of all time or in the Jedi order and all they did was SPAR to hone their skills. To say Mace beat Dooku in sparring is possible, but speculation unless explicitly stated.
On the matter of Sidious vs Windu after consideration, I've found that what Kurupt says is true in some cases and other for Sidious throwing it say is true. The truth most likely lies within the two extremes. There is proof for both sides of the coin.
Lucas says Mace overpowered and overcame Sidious
Nothing ever EXPLICITLY says Sidious threw the fight and that could be counted as a very large detail that could be noted
There is no question that Sidious held back due to the novel saying that Sidious came with all his might
However there are also claims for the opposite side.
Sidious did have a second saber in ROTS so he could have pulled that out once disarmed
He did allow Windu to live when he had a saber at his chest, but didn't take the killing blow
He goes down right as Anakin comes in and he's at the perfect position
Lucas EXPLICITLY states that he was faking his loss of power
He was bending Windu's Lightsaber so he really could have just killed him that way, but why not?
He knows the Jedi are coming and Anakins struggle.
Official site says it's something shady about this fight
Overall this is a challenging question and Kurupt as thoroughly said his part and many others have said theirs. My only message to Kurupt is that you saying your proof destroys the other sides proof is fairly mistaken. If it destroyed it the debate wouldn't continue. So rather than continue this pointless debate, we shall debate about this topic. Jedi vs Sith. Sidious vs Windu victor doesn't really make a difference. The fact that Mace was able to stalemate with Vaapad shows his skills. So who won is irrelevant. What is important is finding out how much of that he woudl retain if he fought Dooku since that whom he will be fighting in this battle.
The very fact that Dooku had such a good showing against Yoda at the end of ATOC makes him at least an equal to Mace. And we know that Yoda wasn't holding back against Dooku because as they are chasing him he remarks that Dooku MUST be stopped or the war will continue, he also remarks on how powerful Dooku has become before they have their duel. Yes Dooku crushed the pillar to escape but the fact that he was even able to be on even keel with an all out Yoda demonstrates his skill.
I think the Sith can win this, it seems to me that the two Sith are better force users than the Jedi and thats what it'll end up coming down to eventually.
Is there really any doubt that Palpatine faking his weakness during his duel with Windu was an act? Clearly Palpatine goes from a weak, feeble and broken man begging for his life to screaming UNLIMITED POWER in a matter of seconds. This was obviously done to get Anakin to take action, his final test to turn him to the Dark Side, which once he did, and the ruse no longer needed, Palpatine once more showed his True Power and blasted Windu out the window. This literally couldnt be more obvious when you watch the movie. Im not saying Mace couldnt beat Palpatine in a duel, Im more saying that its pretty clear that he didnt Really beat him in ROTS.
Originally posted by relentless1
Doesnt matter what you say. Once Lucas sold to Disney, it became theirs to do with as they wish. They have said on several occasion that the official mythos has been stripped down to what occurs in the movies and TV shows only. You can hem and haw and argue your point til your blue in the face but the fact remains that all else has been relegated to the "legends" AKA it never happened section of Star Wars lore.Now having said that, watch ROTS again and try telling me again without lying to yourself of course that Palpatine didn't throw that fight because he 100% did.
Again.... I watched the movie... I saw mace disarm Sids... I saw it.. I saw LUCAS REFERENCE that very scene and without ambiguity go... Mace overpowered Sids. IMO it's you that needs to watch the movie without your Sidious sunglasses on. Again, the evidence lies directly and squarely on my side. it's literally a non argument. Sids lost, deal with it.
Okay, well you're free to have them tell you what's canon about stuff that had nothing to do with. I'll just go ahead and go with the creator of the universe and who the authority was at the time the books were written. I'm comfortable doing that
Originally posted by DTM
Is there really any doubt that Palpatine faking his weakness during his duel with Windu was an act? Clearly Palpatine goes from a weak, feeble and broken man begging for his life to screaming UNLIMITED POWER in a matter of seconds. This was obviously done to get Anakin to take action, his final test to turn him to the Dark Side, which once he did, and the ruse no longer needed, Palpatine once more showed his True Power and blasted Windu out the window. This literally couldnt be more obvious when you watch the movie. Im not saying Mace couldnt beat Palpatine in a duel, Im more saying that its pretty clear that he didnt Really beat him in ROTS.
Clearly you're a little behind in this debate. There is NO debate that Sids feigned being as weak as he was at the end. I've never said otherwise. Lucas flat out says so. HOWEVER, that was ONLY after he had LOST the fight and been disarmed did he try that tactic. The debate we are having is that Sids intentionally threw the entire fight... He let himself get disarmed... let himself be in a weak prone position on purpose. That is DIRECTLY and without question a flat out fairytale and a lie. Lucas LITERALLY, and again, with ambiguity that Mace overpowered and overcame sids. Both words were used. That couldn't be any more clear. The novel notes that Sids attacked windu with all his dark might. Does that sound like there is even an inkling of how holding back or throwing the fight? Of course not.
Let's also forget, AFTER he was disarmed.. he tried AGAIN to kill mace and fires lighting at him... lighting that was visibly hurting him the longer it went on. Palps LITERALLY says.. NO, NO, YOu WILL DIE!!!. Again showing he was trying to kill Mace. This was AFTER Anakin had already walked in. If he was trying to act weak and helpless.. why would you try and fire powerful sustained lighting uttering you will die? You wouldn't. He was trying to kill him.. he only switched tactics once he was also getting damage and mace was enduring (though struggling). People act like he could've just keep going and won, and don't realize, he was in serious trouble himself. If he didn't stop and try another route (turning Anakin) who knows who would've won. However, that doesn't change the fact that Mace beat and disarmed Sids in direct combat. It's really that simple. As I said, it's an open challenge to anybody who says Sids threw the entire fight.
Originally posted by relentless1
The very fact that Dooku had such a good showing against Yoda at the end of ATOC makes him at least an equal to Mace. And we know that Yoda wasn't holding back against Dooku because as they are chasing him he remarks that Dooku MUST be stopped or the war will continue, he also remarks on how powerful Dooku has become before they have their duel. Yes Dooku crushed the pillar to escape but the fact that he was even able to be on even keel with an all out Yoda demonstrates his skill.I think the Sith can win this, it seems to me that the two Sith are better force users than the Jedi and thats what it'll end up coming down to eventually.
You're wrong here again, The novel explicitly states Yoda had reservation about fighting his old apprentice. It also explicitly states he only wanted to capture him not kill him because of the love he still felt for him. He's conflicted. Even then, he casually gets the better of Dooku and makes him flee.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
On the matter of Sidious vs Windu after consideration, I've found that what Kurupt says is true in some cases and other for Sidious throwing it say is true. The truth most likely lies within the two extremes. There is proof for both sides of the coin.Lucas says Mace overpowered and overcame Sidious
Nothing ever EXPLICITLY says Sidious threw the fight and that could be counted as a very large detail that could be noted
There is no question that Sidious held back due to the novel saying that Sidious came with all his mightHowever there are also claims for the opposite side.
Sidious did have a second saber in ROTS so he could have pulled that out once disarmed
He did allow Windu to live when he had a saber at his chest, but didn't take the killing blow
He goes down right as Anakin comes in and he's at the perfect position
Lucas EXPLICITLY states that he was faking his loss of power
He was bending Windu's Lightsaber so he really could have just killed him that way, but why not?
He knows the Jedi are coming and Anakins struggle.
Official site says it's something shady about this fightOverall this is a challenging question and Kurupt as thoroughly said his part and many others have said theirs. My only message to Kurupt is that you saying your proof destroys the other sides proof is fairly mistaken. If it destroyed it the debate wouldn't continue. So rather than continue this pointless debate, we shall debate about this topic. Jedi vs Sith. Sidious vs Windu victor doesn't really make a difference. The fact that Mace was able to stalemate with Vaapad shows his skills. So who won is irrelevant. What is important is finding out how much of that he woudl retain if he fought Dooku since that whom he will be fighting in this battle.
Buddy just because a debate continues and people don't concede doesn't mean one person doesn't have more proof than another. If you can't see that more canon official proof lies on my side that yours... Well I just can't help that. It very clearly does. You still might think your theory is true, but you should be able to see where more canon proof lies.
Originally posted by relentless11. nowhere in the established new canon is there any mention of "combat forms" (if there is please feel free to correct me with proof)
There is bro. The latest source book from Disney confirms them. And there's very little difference to the old EU forms.
One of the forms was even mentioned in Rebels.
Also of note is that even before the Disney purchase TCW was always very faithful to the Forms in the way it portrayed the combatants. Kenobi was time and time again been portrayed as a "defensive" fighter, and Dooku as a one handed fencer.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're wrong here again, The novel explicitly states Yoda had reservation about fighting his old apprentice.
Which novel states that? The AOTC Novel doesn't as far as I remember.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It also explicitly states he only wanted to capture him not kill him
He says "Capture him we must" in the novel. Although that might be over ridden by the movie dialogue. In any case there's no issue there, as even Mace attempted to "Arrest" Palpatine, and not kill him. You don't honestly think that means Mace was holding back do you?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
because of the love he still felt for him. He's conflicted.
Not mentioned in the novel, but hinted at in TCW. But again Yoda won't let that stop him doing what he has to do. He is the Ultimate Jedi Master after all.
Note- Whatever releationship Yoda had with Dooku, I doubt it was stronger than the connection Kenobi had with Skywalker, but that didn't stop Kenobi doing what he needed to do.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Even then, he casually gets the better of Dooku and makes him flee.
The Force fight seemed quite casual for him, but doubt the Saber fight was.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Buddy just because a debate continues and people don't concede doesn't mean one person doesn't have more proof than another. If you can't see that more canon official proof lies on my side that yours... Well I just can't help that. It very clearly does. You still might think your theory is true, but you should be able to see where more canon proof lies.
I'm simply saying there is much more to than this than you realize. Instead of just being an almost bully how about you look at both sides. Again have you not seen my post? I've explicitly put down canon sources for both sides and have said that I personally beleive this is a very complex battle. I agree you have proof for your claim, I admit that you have a well backed and developed case while you refuse to do the same, I do. However you're case isn't correct to the point you can go around saying this is right, and when you're approached with something just don't go like I've taken care of that when you clearly haven't. Also I answered the question you asked in one of those threads where you asked why wouldn't they say it(Sidious threw the fight) since it was a big plot thing. No it's not. At the end the Emperor won, both the his battle with Windu and everything else, so who cares really. Thai debate has boiled to a more personal thing and you should be more open minded and less of a bully.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Again.... I watched the movie... I saw mace disarm Sids... I saw it.. I saw LUCAS REFERENCE that very scene and without ambiguity go... Mace overpowered Sids. IMO it's you that needs to watch the movie without your Sidious sunglasses on. Again, the evidence lies directly and squarely on my side. it's literally a non argument. Sids lost, deal with it.Okay, well you're free to have them tell you what's canon about stuff that had nothing to do with. I'll just go ahead and go with the creator of the universe and who the authority was at the time the books were written. I'm comfortable doing that
I have a question for you. What if Lucas never said Windu "overcame" Sidious or "overpowered" him? The scene plays out exactly the same way except he never says that. We still see Sidious get his lightsaber kicked out of his hand, and Sidious on the ground. So what difference does it make that he says those. Really and absolutely nothing. He's just describing that particular moment. He's not settling a debate, he's not determining a winner, he's describing a scene. So those two words don't destroy, crush, or take down anything they simply show him doing his job as a director and describe the scene. Ok I'm going to do what you do. All the evidence lies with me. You can watch the movie and obviously tell Sidious won the fight. There is no doubt in question Sidious threw the fight to get Anakin to the dark side which is canonically proven. The novel speciffacly states that Windu felt Anakins presence before he even got to the room, so that woudl mean Sidious would too since his powers in the force and foresight Are much greater than Windu's correct? The official site says it was something shady of that battle. Anakin walks in the moment Sidious is in the perfect position. Sidious knows he's the only way to save Padme and he knows Anakin knows this. I have more proof on my side, so Sidious threw the fight, end of story. Majority u fo the proof lies with me, game over. You can choose to live in that fantasy land where Widnu could actually beat the Emperor, but that's all it will ever be is a fantasy land. Also it's canocially confirmed Sidious had two sabers in ROTS so he could have pulled that saber out and kept on fighting.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're wrong here again, The novel explicitly states Yoda had reservation about fighting his old apprentice. It also explicitly states he only wanted to capture him not kill him because of the love he still felt for him. He's conflicted. Even then, he casually gets the better of Dooku and makes him flee.
Movie shows differently. So reservation s going all out in an Ataru frenzy? Lucas himself says that Yoda has to muster all his strength, and power to fight Dooku, so why hold back. He knows Dooku isn't someone to be messed with and he doesn't know how much he's improved wishing these last years.