Saitama vs Goku

Originally posted by Galan007
Power-scaling is what we use in DB the majority of the time, whether you people want to accept it or not.

For example: Goku has never destroyed a moon. Master Roshi has. That said, if we only relied on collateral damage-causing feats, then Roshi would be >>>>> SSJ3 Goku... But thanks to logical power-scaling, we know this is obviously not true.

It really is that easy to understand. 🙂

👆

Same applies to Frieza destroying a planet with ease. Super Saiyan 2 Gohan has never destroyed a planet but via power scaling, it is obvious he can achieve this. Power levels>>>>>Fts.

Originally posted by Galan007
Power-scaling is what we use in DB the majority of the time, whether you people want to accept it or not.

For example: Goku has never destroyed a moon. Master Roshi has. That said, if we only relied on collateral damage-causing feats, then Roshi would be >>>>> SSJ3 Goku... But thanks to logical power-scaling, we know this is obviously not true.

It really is that easy to understand. 🙂

Originally posted by juggerman
The new manga totally ignores BFoG. While Bardock may have confronted Frieza, he was not able to see the future, he was not betrayed and almost killed by Dodoria, he was not laughed out of a bar ect. Basically nothing besides Bardock guessing something was up was kept. So are we to assume the story AK actually wrote is less canon than the one he didn't write?

I understand what you are saying in this case.
If you ask me about this fact, my answer will always be that the original DB-DBZ manga stands above everything, anytime.: thus, Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta along with the Saiyan race while in his 1st form, sitting on his ki-propelled chair, there's no escape from that.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
I understand what you are saying in this case.
If you ask me about this fact, my answer will always be that the original DB-DBZ manga stands above everything, anytime.: thus, Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta along with the Saiyan race while in his 1st form, sitting on his ki-propelled chair, there's no escape from that.

I always assumed BFoG was canon until it was pointed out to me(probably by Galan) that AK didn't write it and didn't choose to canonize it. He only canonized the one character Bardock but nothing else.

And now he even made a "reboot" which further shows it isn't canon. I don't see how an AK story is less canon than one written by another guy.

Originally posted by juggerman
I always assumed BFoG was canon until it was pointed out to me(probably by Galan) that AK didn't write it and didn't choose to canonize it. He only canonized the one character Bardock but nothing else.

And now he even made a "reboot" which further shows it isn't canon. I don't see how an AK story is less canon than one written by another guy.

Bardock exploding along planet Vegeta and 1st form Freeza finger-blasting appear in the original DBZ manga:

original DBZ manga > everything.

Bardock, planet Vegeta exploding with all the Saiyans, and 1st form Freeza finger-busting from his chair are all canon that more canon than this you can't actually get. I consider all the rest incosequential.
That's the only thing I can personally say about this.

Originally posted by juggerman
I always assumed BFoG was canon until it was pointed out to me(probably by Galan) that AK didn't write it and didn't choose to canonize it. He only canonized the one character Bardock but nothing else.

And now he even made a "reboot" which further shows it isn't canon. I don't see how an AK story is less canon than one written by another guy.

Sigh.

Originally posted by carver9
👆

Same applies to Frieza destroying a planet with ease. Super Saiyan 2 Gohan has never destroyed a planet but via power scaling, it is obvious he can achieve this. Power levels>>>>>Fts.

There's a big difference from being a Planet buster to a Solar System buster.

Some of you guys uses powerscallling all wrong. The jump from planet to Solar System is an astronomical jump that makes no sense what so ever when characters that comes later haven't showed said power outputs.

So if someone comes on here and claims Buu to be a casual Planet Buster, ill completely agree with them, but when someone comes and claims that Buu is a Galaxy buster with no feats to back it up, then get ready for a fight you on it.

Originally posted by SquallX
There's a big difference from being a Planet buster to a Solar System buster.

Some of you guys uses powerscallling all wrong. The jump from planet to Solar System is an astronomical jump that makes no sense what so ever when characters that comes later haven't showed said power outputs.

So if someone comes on here and claims Buu to be a casual Planet Buster, ill completely agree with them, but when someone comes and claims that Buu is a Galaxy buster with no feats to back it up, then get ready for a fight you on it.

So there's no fear there. Beerus on the other hand though might reach and surpass that

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Even if Cell was a solar system buster (which he was), power scaling still wouldn't allow for Buu to be a galaxy buster. Because galaxies are ****ing huge and there's like hundreds of billions of stars in the milky way alone.

So there's no fear there. Beerus on the other hand though might reach and surpass that

How was Cell Solar System Buster when feats performed by much more powerful characters than him never went higher than Planet buster?

^ Cell's solar system busting claim come from the ViZ manga translations and a databook entry for SSJ2 Gohan. While I still think its sketchy those are two canon sources to draw from.

I still want to know what any of this has to do with Goku fighting Saitama.

Originally posted by SquallX
How was Cell Solar System Buster when feats performed by much more powerful characters than him never went higher than Planet buster?

As for Cell: he commented that his final Kamehameha was powerful enough to destroy the solar system. Gohan's official SSJ2 bio corroborates Cell's claim. So yes, he[Super-Perfect Cell] was a potential 'insta'-solar system-buster.

Don't worry, though: even with power-scaling in full-swing, that still doesn't put anyone in Z(aside, perhaps, from those in the Beerus/Whis-tier) remotely close to galaxy-busting-level... Nevermind universe-busting, lol. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
There has never been a reason/need for a character in Dragon Ball to one-shot more than a planet, tbh. Goku, for example, has never done so. Does that mean he is incapable of such? No. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as it were. 🙂

As for Cell: he commented that his final Kamehameha was powerful enough to destroy the solar system. Gohan's official SSJ2 bio corroborates Cell's claim. So yes, he[Super-Perfect Cell] was a potential 'insta'-solar system-buster.

Don't worry, though: even with power-scaling in full-swing, that still doesn't put anyone in Z(aside, perhaps, from those in the Beerus/Whis-tier) remotely close to galaxy-busting-level... Nevermind universe-busting, lol. 👆

I see where you and Waka's coming from. I might even agree with you, but in the end, it is a contradiction.

We all know the second we found out that Frieza wiped out the Saiyans race, the chance of him being a planet buster wasn't so far off. Goku beating him automatically put him at a planet buster even if he never planet bust. We do that 1. because of feats, and 2. because of power scalling being use the right way.

In DBZ, power is linear right? We know if you have a higher ki level, you're stronger than you're opponent.

Now let's look at Cell and SSJ2 Gohan.

Bio and Cell claims they posses a Solar System buster. That's fine. Let's not even bring collateral damage into it. No feat was proven just a statement.

Now x amount of yrs passed, and Buu showed up.

Buu we know is atleast x10 of Cell, never displayed said power.

Kid Buu though weaker than SUper Buu, was pure rage and hate. The first thing he did was to casually blow up the planet without a second thought.

In that display of feat, we saw KB as a casuall planet buster. Can we claim that the reason he didn't destroy a Solar System before was because Bibidi didn't want him too? Sure we can use that as a reason. But what was the reason why he didn't bust the Solar System after he was resurrected?

That feat from Kid Buu who's nothing but a mindless killing being proves Cell's statement about being a Solar System as just that a statement and a contradiction to the later part of the story.

Same for the Bio. Bio's are secondary canon, there to be use as mostly a guide, they don't take precedence over the primary canon.

The only Bio in manga i've read that doesn't contradicts itself is the Jojo Bizarre bio.

Can i be wrong about the Cell thing? Of course i can. Am not that single minded that ill scream am right and everyone's wrong. I have no problem changing my mind if actual proof is showed to me and not just a characters statement and bios been used. Let's be honest here, Cell was even more of a blow hard than Frieeza that loved hearing himself talk.

Originally posted by Galan007
There has never been a reason/need for a character in Dragon Ball to one-shot more than a planet, tbh. Goku, for example, has never done so. Does that mean he is incapable of such? No. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as it were. 🙂

As for Cell: he commented that his final Kamehameha was powerful enough to destroy the solar system. Gohan's official SSJ2 bio corroborates Cell's claim. So yes, he[Super-Perfect Cell] was a potential 'insta'-solar system-buster.

Don't worry, though: even with power-scaling in full-swing, that still doesn't put anyone in Z(aside, perhaps, from those in the Beerus/Whis-tier) remotely close to galaxy-busting-level... Nevermind universe-busting, lol. 👆

👆

Common sense really.

@Squall...

Doomsday is a heartless monster. Killing machine that does not hold back and has not destroyed anything above City or mountain level yet let alone ever. Where would you put him at strength wise.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
^ Cell's solar system busting claim come from the ViZ manga translations and a databook entry for SSJ2 Gohan. While I still think its sketchy those are two canon sources to draw from.

I still want to know what any of this has to do with Goku fighting Saitama.

They ARE sketchy, because if we took claims as evidence, Mr. Satan and OPM's King would be the most powerful characters in manga. 😛

I personally believe Cell's claims, but recognize relying on a boast (even if with source book support) makes for a shaky argument.

It became more than just a claim when it was corroborated by a bio.

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh.

Shut up Carver. I asked you to back up your claim and you couldn't and stopped replying to me. Don't come back now to piggy back others. It's unbecoming

Originally posted by Galan007
It became more than just a claim when it was corroborated by a bio.

Still doesn't make it a "feat", though.

As much as I'd love to use Walter Simonsons claim that Orion would have grown the size of a galaxy in his cancelled series, the fact is it didn't happen.

Now, that's not to say Cell has to destroy a solar system to prove he could. Silver Surfer has very few planet busting feats, but he certainly has the showings to prove he's capable of it. Alan Scott, he's someone who never destoyed a system, but his feats go a good way towards proving he could do it.

And that's what Cell lacks, an in manga on panel feat to suggest he could have blown up that solar system. Creator comments and bios shouldn't really take the place of events in story, imo (And at least on the comics vs, I believe therr's a rule against it. Haven't checked Manga vs though, but rule or not it's still a good general policy.)

Originally posted by juggerman
Shut up Carver. I asked you to back up your claim and you couldn't and stopped replying to me. Don't come back now to piggy back others. It's unbecoming

lol burn

Originally posted by juggerman
I understand perfectly what power levels mean. Goku was holding back but nothing points to him holding back to the degree you are talking about. Also please provide the page where Frieza says he's depleted because all I remember is him saying he nearly died.

Frieza was between 50% and 70% when he fired that blast iirc. Again, him being "depleted" right after the bomb is not the same as being "depleted" later especially after fighting Goku for a little bit after coming back.

So this makes your argument not so great. Goku goal was to get Frieza to power up to his max, not kill him before hand. You said he was going all out. Seems like you changed your stance.

Frieza said that the bomb drained him (don't have the page yet...looking). That could very well be the reason he was unable to accomplish his goal of destroying Namek in a single attack. Hell, he even tells us that he failed because he didn't put enough power into the attack.