Count Dooku vs Tol Braga, Leeha Narezz and Warren Sedoru

Originally posted by SunRazer
There's just as many people here who seem to adhere to the philosophy of OR Jedi/Sith automatically being superior to their modern counterparts. And yes, it's a red herring because you predicted a response that was never stated or implied here. Anti-fanboyism acts right off the bat (despite no provocation) are always red herrings.

I have stated the obvious and this seems to upset fans of PT/OT era characters. Most notably you and The_Tempest.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The criteria involves somebody of immense power and skill, it just doesn't have to be Vitiate-tier. You don't need to go into the highest of tiers to get somebody who could defeat this team.

With Grand Master Satele Shan's support, Master Braga assembles a strike team of the strongest and most resolute Jedi in the order. Their goal is to pinpoint the Emperor's hidden fortress, capture the Sith leader alive, and turn him to the light side. (Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Each among these Jedi have immense power and skill. Don't you think?

Originally posted by SunRazer
And the Hero tackled them individually because they were located in different areas, lol.

Moreover, these Jedi were individually so powerful that Vitiate granted each supervisory role in orchestrating events in different settings that would fuel his ritual.

1. That's the typical opinion of a TOR fan. The fanboyism debates are always an impasse, so don't bother.

2. "Strongest in the Order"? So were the Jedi assembled by Mace Windu to take down Palpatine, before they were all slaughtered like pigs.

3. Sure, but the HoT could quite possibly defeat Leeha and Warren together, seeing as he gets to bring a companion along. Also, what suggests Braga nearly stopped him?

Lol, and Braga didn't nearly stop the HoT. He just knocked him of balance. Once. They don't even compare.

Originally posted by SunRazer
2. "Strongest in the Order"? So were the Jedi assembled by Mace Windu to take down Palpatine, before they were all slaughtered like pigs.

And why are you pointing out feats of Darth Sidious? You think that Count Dooku is in his league?

Originally posted by SunRazer
3. Sure, but the HoT could quite possibly defeat Leeha and Warren together, seeing as he gets to bring a companion along. Also, what suggests Braga nearly stopped him?

Tol Braga was able to hold his own against Hero of Tython in an exchange of Force powers. What happened afterwards is open to speculation.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
With exception of Mace Windu, his companions [3 in total] were renowned for their expertise in Jedi dueling arts. Nothing more.

And you think that Count Dooku is in the league of Darth Sidious and Vitiate?

We are considering a single individual here.

Tol Braga nearly overwhelmed Hero of Tython with his Force powers. You can check the footage on YouTube.

1. Saesee was renowned as one of the most powerful Jedi (in the Force) as well, and he threw a battle droid four kilometers.

2. That's an example of a strawman that Tempest was talking about, and an example of a red herring that I was talking about. Nowhere did I ever state or imply Dooku is in their league, and I never claimed Dooku would win this matchup either, so I have no idea why that would be relevant.

3. He knocked the Hero down with TK, but that's a common occurrence in pre-fight cutscene encounters with a boss in TOR.

And why are you pointing out feats of Darth Sidious? You think that Count Dooku is in his league?

You said nobody other than Vitiate could school them, lol.

Another red herring.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Saesee was renowned as one of the most powerful Jedi (in the Force) as well, and he threw a battle droid four kilometers.

As he progressed in the Order, he was acknowledged as having one of the strongest Force abilities of all the Jedi. (Taken from The Official Star Wars Fact File #114)

This sounds similar to the case of Bastilla Shan and Battle Meditation. She was able to influence countless targets and turn the tide of entire battles with a single talent. Battle Meditation is officially identified as one of the most powerful applications of the Force.

However, Shan was noticeably inferior in comparison to the best of her era in single combat or offensive use of the Force.

---

Also, what kind of battle droid? B1? It weighed only 65 kg.

Even if we are to assume that Saesee Tiin was decent in offensive use of the Force, Darth Sidious didn't overwhelm him in an exchange of Force powers. Sidious chose to kill the referred Jedi with a lightsaber as soon as he felt the need to do so. Tiin didn't get the opportunity to bring his powers to bear in this encounter.

Originally posted by SunRazer
2. That's an example of a strawman that Tempest was talking about, and an example of a red herring that I was talking about. Nowhere did I ever state or imply Dooku is in their league, and I never claimed Dooku would win this matchup either, so I have no idea why that would be relevant.

Originally posted by SunRazer
3. He knocked the Hero down with TK, but that's a common occurrence in pre-fight cutscene encounters with a boss in TOR.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Evidently, only Vitiate is capable of challenging and defeating a Jedi Strike Team of this caliber.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
These Jedi were chosen by the Jedi High Council among thousands of options to tackle the greatest threat to the Jedi Order in the galaxy in an era when Jedi were supposedly at the pinnacle of their preparedness and competence.

Agen, Kit and Saesee were chosen to deal with the most power Sith Lord in history (ys, superior to Vitiate) in an era, that was called "Jedi Prime Era" and "Golden Age of Jedi".

Dooku takes this.

Originally posted by Sinious
Please tell me you meant that Vitiate is the only person who could defeat this team in that very specific timeline. If you honestly have this team above Sidious, Luke, Yoda etc. I'm speechless.

How the others will perform against the referred Jedi Strike Team [Hero of Tython included] is open to speculation and debate. But nothing is certain.

Darth Sidious (Canon incarnation) pinned Savage Opress and Darth Maul simultaneously to a wall for a short while with his Force abilities but it is unclear if he can do this to [4] powerful Jedi simultaneously and/or overwhelm them with just his Force abilities. For example, when 4 Jedi actually came to arrest Sidious, the Sith Lord chose to dispatch them with a Lightsaber. Similarly, I don't recall Yoda and Luke Skywalker overwhelming [4] powerful Jedi simultaneously with their Force abilities at any point.

However, Sidious (Dark Empire incarnation) have command of Force powers under his belt which enable him to inflict devastation of apocalyptic proportions, if given the opportunity. So he have my vote under right circumstances.

An argument can be made for Sidious (Canon), Yoda and Luke Skywalker (Legends) for capable of defeating the trio of Tol Braga, Leeha Narezz and Warren Sedoru simultaneously, but I am reluctant to maintain this opinion if Hero of Tython is included in the referred Strike Team.

Vitiate spent hundreds of years honing his talents in the Dark Side and specializes in offensive use of the Force abilities unlike any Jedi and/or Sith, IMO.

Yeah, I'm not wasting my time anymore. Legend accusing me of blatant PT fanboyism is hypocrisy and irony beyond measure.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate is the only being in the galactic history who have actual history of overwhelming some of the most formidable Strike Teams [ever assembled] with sheer raw power and Force abilities in confrontations.

How the others will perform against the referred Jedi Strike Team [Hero of Tython included] is open to speculation and debate. But nothing is certain.

So since Sidious one-shot SK, Sidious >>> Starkiller/Vitiate >>> Braga Strike Team.

Yoda stalemated ROTS Sidious and Luke is easily on DE Sidious' level which means they are all vastly above Vitaite and this team as well. An argument can be made for Vitiate or the strike team of course. 😉

This is why the logic you're following doesn't work tbh.

Originally posted by Sinious
If that's the logic you're following, Starkiller freaking pulled down a Star Destroyer and Sidious one-shot him with the force. So since Vitiate has never done anything much more impressive than that with TK, Starkiller is easily on his level.

So since Sidious one-shot SK, Sidious >>> Starkiller/Vitiate >>> Braga Strike Team.

Yoda stalemated ROTS Sidious and Luke is easily on DE Sidious' level which means they are all vastly above Vitaite and this team as well. An argument can be made for Vitiate or the strike team of course. 😉

This is why the logic you're following doesn't work tbh.

The Imperial Star Destroyer [in question] was in the process of crashing by itself after suffering extensive damage in a battle above Coruscant. Starkiller only managed to alter its trajectory with his Force abilities and this took some time.

If Starkiller was 'actually' capable of pulling down an Imperial Star Destroyer in perfect condition and mid-flight, he would have one-shotted Darth Vader and perhaps even Darth Sidious. 😉

Luke Skywalker outdueled Sidious in a strictly melee-oriented clash and this is not surprising. Sidious's mistake was to assume that he could outduel Luke Skywalker in every setting after his earlier victory in a clash of similar nature.

If you are power-scaling then Tulak Hord, Darth Jadus and Darth Nihilus have some fantastic feats and they are officially inferior to Vitiate.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If Starkiller was 'actually' capable of pulling down an Imperial Star Destroyer in perfect condition and mid-flight, he would have one-shotted Darth Vader and perhaps even Darth Sidious.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, I'm not wasting my time anymore. Legend accusing me of blatant PT fanboyism is hypocrisy and irony beyond measure.

However, if you think that you are different from those, then make your stance clear with direct statements. Whats with the subtle ways to challenge an argument and leveling accusations on the argument-maker?

Originally posted by Stigma
Or... Vader and Sidious are that good?

Vitiate dies.

Dooku defeated a stronger strike team who had the element of surprise, while drugged.

I don't see how he possibly loses this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Starkiller didn't pull down any Imperial Star Destroyer; this is a misconception.

The Imperial Star Destroyer [in question] was in the process of crashing by itself after suffering extensive damage in a battle above Coruscant. Starkiller only managed to alter its trajectory with his Force abilities and this took some time.

If Starkiller was 'actually' capable of pulling down an Imperial Star Destroyer in perfect condition and mid-flight, he would have one-shotted Darth Vader and perhaps even Darth Sidious. 😉

Even what he did is still uber impressive tbh.

Luke Skywalker outdueled Sidious in a strictly melee-oriented clash and this is not surprising. Sidious's mistake was to assume that he could outduel Luke Skywalker in every setting after his earlier victory in a clash of similar nature.

If you are power-scaling then Tulak Hord, Darth Jadus and Darth Nihilus have some fantastic feats and they are officially inferior to Vitiate.

Originally posted by Selenial
Dooku defeated a stronger strike team who had the element of surprise, while drugged.

I don't see how he possibly loses this.

Lmao