Ok but that doesn't make sense. Scourge's training has been documented, we just have fewer examples of it.
I mean, by that reckoning, I could say that Palpatine's dark side adepts - who are said to be extremely powerful - could very well rival members of Vitiate's dark council, they just have far less exposure.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ok but that doesn't make sense. Scourge's training has been documented, we just have fewer examples of it.
I have most SWTOR sources at my disposal and I haven't found much information about Lord Scourge's training experiences. What is known is that Lord Scourge proved to be among the best students of his batch and was particularly renowned for his dueling skills.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I mean, by that reckoning, I could say that Palpatine's dark side adepts - who are said to be extremely powerful - could very well rival members of Vitiate's dark council, they just have far less exposure.
Isn't it stated somewhere that Palpatine provided limited training to his Dark Side adepts?
Well that's just it: we have tidbits from Revan and SWTORE.
So you're saying you wouldn't deny the very real possibility that the Emperor's dark side adepts are on a level with Vitiate's Dark Council members?
It is said in the Dark Empire Handbook (iirc) that though they are no match for Palpatine, many of them grew to be "extremely powerful" indeed.
But I'm on my iPhone so I can't look it up for you.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well that's just it: we have tidbits from Revan and SWTORE.
Therefore, this defeats the purpose of trying to prove who is better trained among the two.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
So you're saying you wouldn't deny the very real possibility that the Emperor's dark side adepts are on a level with Vitiate's Dark Council members?It is said in the Dark Empire Handbook (iirc) that though they are no match for Palpatine, many of them grew to be "extremely powerful" indeed.
But I'm on my iPhone so I can't look it up for you.
Insofar, I get the impression (from what I have read) that Palpatine minimized competition for himself in the Galactic Empire and offered limited training to his Dark Side adepts. His Dark Side adepts were tools to promote his agenda rather then work for advancement of the Sith cause.
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Members of the Dark Council tend to be among the most accomplished and learned Sith in the Empire. In absence of Vitiate, some of these Sith even had the potential to become the Emperor.
That doesn't answer my question, though.
You're telling me that something is inconclusive without proper exposure of certain feats and elements. That means that since Palps' dark side adepts are stated to be extremely powerful but lack the exposure of other characters, we can't eliminate the possibility that they're on par with other heavyweights from other eras.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
That doesn't answer my question, though.You're telling me that something is inconclusive without proper exposure of certain feats and elements. That means that since Palps' dark side adepts are stated to be extremely powerful but lack the exposure of other characters, we can't eliminate the possibility that they're on par with other heavyweights from other eras.
They are extremely powerful? If yes, then in comparison to whom or is this someone's assumption? Are they proper Sith Lords? Any notable accomplishments?
Originally posted by ILSThis is true. 👆
Or maybe... academy training just isn't up there with what personal tutoring from the greatest Sith to ever exist will do for you. 😮💨
However, I don't understand why their training matters that much since both sides had at least average training. Scourge's experience as a combatant however, will indeed be a problem for Maul.
Originally posted by SiniousAn argument that hasn't really been substantiated yet. It's like saying Thor can outbox Batman if they had equal physical stats because he's millions of years old.. yet he's actually a very sloppy combatant compared to Bruce.
This is true. 👆However, I don't understand why their training matters that much since both sides had at least average training. Scourge's experience as a combatant however, will indeed be a problem for Maul.
I put an emphasis on quality and specifics; as in, the quality of one's training and how profound their various trials and tribulations have been. At least with dark siders, it matters more how much shit they've gone through and overcome than how long they've been around - hence why Maul, for his relatively young age, is competing with people who have been around far longer. He's very powerful, and he's been stretched to his limits at every turn.
All we know about Scourge is that he's got a few wrinkles on his track record and killed a lot of vaguely important beings.
Originally posted by SiniousWell, they do in this case. Bruce had much better training than Thor and has been put into situations that strained him far more as a fighter. Thor has been swinging his weapon longer but only at easier targets. It appears to be the same case here.
Comic book stories never really made sense tbh.
Not that I need to rely just on this training argument. There's plenty of other reasons Maul wins.
Originally posted by ILSScourge was sent after only the ones worthy of the Emperor's notice. Obviously, the enemies he fought were powerful combatants. Killing 1000 Sith and 100 Jedi in this regard is definitely a beneficial experience. Not to mention he made the Dark Council s***their pants.I put an emphasis on quality and specifics; as in, the quality of one's training and how profound their various trials and tribulations have been. At least with dark siders, it matters more how much shit they've gone through and overcome than how long they've been around - hence why Maul, for his relatively young age, is competing with people who have been around far longer. He's very powerful, and he's been stretched to his limits at every turn.
All we know about Scourge is that he's got a few wrinkles on his track record and killed a lot of vaguely important beings.
Originally posted by ILSIts entirely a different case actually. First of all, we don't even know what Thor did in those years. Scourge faced enemies that have the same powers/abilities with Maul as they're Sith/Jedi force users and are confirmed to be powerful/dangerous enough to worry Vitiate himself.
Well, they do in this case. Bruce had much better training than Thor and has been put into situations that strained him far more as a fighter. Thor has been swinging his weapon longer but only at easier targets. It appears to be the same case here.Not that I need to rely just on this training argument. There's plenty of other reasons Maul wins.
Originally posted by SiniousNo doubt he has a lot of decent kills on his record.. but be careful not to exaggerate. I'm sure these weren't people Maul would have much trouble with. He's already comfortably defeated some very good, well documented swordsmen, he doesn't need to do it a thousand times to show he's capable of it.
Scourge was sent after only the ones worthy of the Emperor's notice. Obviously, the enemies he fought were powerful combatants. Killing 1000 Sith and 100 Jedi in this regard is definitely a beneficial experience. Not to mention he made the Dark Council s***their pants.
Originally posted by SiniousI'm just not seeing how this experience helps Scourge against Maul specifically. Like I said, quality of experience matters.
Its entirely a different case actually. First of all, we don't even know what Thor did in those years. Scourge faced enemies that have the same powers/abilities with Maul as they're Sith/Jedi force users and are confirmed to be powerful/dangerous enough to worry Vitiate himself.
For example, I'd argue Scourge's Soresu wouldn't be too troubling for Maul given that he's kind of the rival of Star Wars' best Soresu duelist.