Durron, Kun and TFU II Starkiller vs. Novel!Vitiate, SoR Revan and HoT (Force only)

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Durron matches or defeats Novel!Vitiate unless if Vitiate can pull some sorcery hack, which I suppose is possible.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Kun beats SoR Revan, pending Ant's meme-worthy, month in the making last reply that is supposed to end my career or something.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Starkiller crushes HoT like a bug and then gangs up on Novel!Vitiate.

HoT is the weak link and loses it for team 2.

Team 2. Vitiate beats Kun and Revan beats Durron. The HoT might lose to SK, but probably lasts long enough that it wouldn't matter. SK gets gangbanged by Vitiate and Revan.

In what universe is the Hero lasting any period of time against Starkiller?

If you can show me how his feats and accolades remotely compare, you're welcome to. Revan's feats don't hold a candle to Starkiller's, hence why Ant has to pretend that TFU doesn't exist to hold a discussion on the matter.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Starkiller is not stomping HoT. The latter is strong enough to preoccupy Starkiller until one of the members of Team 1 falls (most likely the one who confronts Vitiate).

Can I ask why you believe that to be the case? Weakened Vitiate has demonstrated temple busting TK but Galen was capable of that by Raxus Prime around the time of his fight with Kazdan after he had already thought potentially thousands of droids and created a hurricane by hurling all of their parts into the air and then muses on collapsing the artificial temple Kazdan had constructed.

Galen after that point has feats superior to even that. I could agree that a fight between Vitiate and Starkiller or Revan and Starkiller would be much closer but between HoT and Starkiller I don't see it.

That being said I do agree that Vitiate is superior to anyone here with Exar Kun close behind so I imagine those two would pair off and then Starkiller and Revan and then Kyp and HoT. The fight really depends then on whether Kyp beats HoT or Vitiate beats Exar Kun first. In my opinion HoT would fall to Kyp first and then lend his power to Exar Kun.

Even taking that at face value, that was Vitiate at the end of a fight when he was in far, far worse condition than he was at the start of the fight. So the Hero would still have to overcome powers vastly greater than temple busting, and did to the extent of exhausting Vitiate while she stayed relatively fresh, on a massive nexus.

Of course, we shouldn't take Starkillers arrogant thoughts into consideration for the same reason we shouldn't take Maul musing that he could solo the Jedi Temple into consideration. Sith are arrogant, delusional and exaggerate their powers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even taking that at face value, that was Vitiate at the end of a fight when he was in far, far worse condition than he was at the start of the fight. So the Hero would still have to overcome powers vastly greater than temple busting, and did to the extent of exhausting Vitiate while she stayed relatively fresh, on a massive nexus.

Unless if there's some source other than the video game that you're using, I have no idea where you get the idea that Vitiate "temple busted" in an impressive way from. He brought down one slab of stone, and then Scourge says something about the Temple falling apart and then it cuts to black. You've no idea how long it takes Vitiate to collapse the temple or really how completely he does.

Of course, we shouldn't take Starkillers arrogant thoughts into consideration for the same reason we shouldn't take Maul musing that he could solo the Jedi Temple into consideration. Sith are arrogant, delusional and exaggerate their powers.

Yeah, but even his actual feats are far, far, far beyond the Hero's. And he isn't a sith. 👆

Why are you talking to me? Pretty sure I was replying to Syndicate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even taking that at face value, that was Vitiate at the end of a fight when he was in far, far worse condition than he was at the start of the fight. So the Hero would still have to overcome powers vastly greater than temple busting, and did to the extent of exhausting Vitiate while she stayed relatively fresh, on a massive nexus.

Of course, we shouldn't take Starkillers arrogant thoughts into consideration for the same reason we shouldn't take Maul musing that he could solo the Jedi Temple into consideration. Sith are arrogant, delusional and exaggerate their powers.

A massive Lightside Nexus?

Given he had just hurled at the very least thousands of droids into the air causing an artificial hurricane I doubt Galen was overestimating his capabilities.

Also are we to disregard Maul thinking he could have collapsed that barracks with a force scream pre TPM?

Novel!Vitiate ~= Durron > Starkiller ~= Revan >> HoT

No, a Darkside nexus. They were fighting in the Dark Temple.

Maybe. But wouldn't that contradict how Galen needed to smash a ship through a wall to get into the temple in the first place? Regardless, it was a temple cobbled together from junk. Lets not get too impressed.

Well, yeah.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, a Darkside nexus. They were fighting in the Dark Temple.

Maybe. But wouldn't that contradict how Galen needed to smash a ship through a wall to get into the temple in the first place? Regardless, it was a temple cobbled together from junk. Lets not get too impressed.

Well, yeah.

Then that just makes Vitiate's feat even less impressive because he was being amped while his opponent ( whom I'm assuming was a Jedi at this point ) was weakened. Also I just mentioned how Galen had fought through an army of droids and then force blasted them continuously to the point he caused an artificial hurricane before musing about collapsing Kazdan's artifical temple. The latter feat shouldn't be out of capabilities because of the former feat he accomplished. Also if Galen was apparently able to accomplish this AFTER not only these feats but his fight with Kazdan as well so I'm not seeing how Vitiate having to fight the HoT weakened him to the point that his TK was far better then temple busting.

Because if he'd brought the entire Temple down Kazdan might have survived and have tried to escape. Starkiller's mission was to kill the Aleena and bring back his saber as evidence as per Vader's order. A little difficult to do when said saber is buried under thousands of tons of rubble or your query is leading you on a chase across planet. Junk like starship parts which are made of durasteel and incredibly strong alloys made to survive travelling through space at extremely high speeds and in many cases hyper space. Regardless according to Ell Vitiate didn't even collapse the whole temple it seems, he just knocked a stone out of place.

Sorry I take musings like that as indicative of their actual abilities. I don't take musing on a character being able to beat another opponent as legitimate but I definitely on in regards to their Force capabilities since that's an intimate part of their being one which I'm sure they understand the full extent of.

No, it makes the HoT's more impressive. She'd just fought through a city filled with Sith forces (noted to hold legions of sith with the remaining population almost entirely military) and then fought through Vitiates Imperial Guard and Sith forces guarding the temple, some of the greatest fighters in the galaxy. Not only is the Dark Temple nexus immense (almost everyone approaching it goes insane, just building near it caused a thousand slaves to go mad), thus weakening her but the HoT had to expend energy rescuing her companion while inside it. As stated, Vitiate at the end of the fight was powerful enough to destroy the temple so his power at the start of the fight would be immensely greater than that. The Hero still tanked and spanked his ass. And lol, Vitiate was MASSIVELY weakened even before the fight but in the cutscene after you beat him in gameplay he could barely stand and was clutching his side. He was clearly highly exhausted and wounded to the point where he was struggling to sustain himself with the Force. And then the Hero practically cuts him in half and potentially pancakes him under a pillar. Then he does the feat. He was obviously hugely reduced in power by that point and would be incomparable superior at the start of the fight.

Actually, Galen had plenty of time to recover after the fight until Juno picked him up and got into orbit, when he had that thought. And he states that he could have brought it down around Kazdans ears, so obviously he was thinking as of before the fight not after it. And you miss my point, if Galen could smash the whole temple, why couldn't he just make a hole with TK? Why did he need to use the ship? Ell is wrong.

Well you shouldn't. Anakin also says he'd doubled in power, obviously untrue. Its just idle hyperbolic boasting.

Can someone refresh my memory as to Vitiate being weakened? I only recall him clutching his side AFTER the Hero beat his ass. Also don't remember him "barely standing."

Tol Braga says "Even in his weakened state, you are no match for him", Scourge says that he's weakened but will recover in time and the quest text says he was weakened and vulnerable: "You’ve learned that the Emperor is on Dromund Kaas, temporarily weakened by your efforts thwarting his plan for galactic annihilation."

He's on his knees, clutching his side and panting. Even when talking he stays on his knees rather than rising. When he stands he's visibly staggering.

Scourge also says after you save Kira that you gave Vitiate time to regain his strength.

You mean... After the Hero beats his ass? 😬

Still wanking to that vague and unquantifiable temple feat, which wouldn't even be in Galen's top five, lmao.

Clearly not all of it or even close to. The Hero obviously can't beat a full-power, nexus-amped Vitiate.

Yes. Re-read my post, I said he was barely standing after the Hero beats him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, it makes the HoT's more impressive. She'd just fought through a city filled with Sith forces (noted to hold legions of sith with the remaining population almost entirely military) and then fought through Vitiates Imperial Guard and Sith forces guarding the temple, some of the greatest fighters in the galaxy. Not only is the Dark Temple nexus immense (almost everyone approaching it goes insane, just building near it caused a thousand slaves to go mad), thus weakening her but the HoT had to expend energy rescuing her companion while inside it. As stated, Vitiate at the end of the fight was powerful enough to destroy the temple so his power at the start of the fight would be immensely greater than that. The Hero still tanked and spanked his ass. And lol, Vitiate was MASSIVELY weakened even before the fight but in the cutscene after you beat him in gameplay he could barely stand and was clutching his side. He was clearly highly exhausted and wounded to the point where he was struggling to sustain himself with the Force. And then the Hero practically cuts him in half and potentially pancakes him under a pillar. Then he does the feat. He was obviously hugely reduced in power by that point and would be incomparable superior at the start of the fight.

Actually, Galen had plenty of time to recover after the fight until Juno picked him up and got into orbit, when he had that thought. And he states that he could have brought it down around Kazdans ears, so obviously he was thinking as of before the fight not after it. And you miss my point, if Galen could smash the whole temple, why couldn't he just make a hole with TK? Why did he need to use the ship? Ell is wrong.

Well you shouldn't. Anakin also says he'd doubled in power, obviously untrue. Its just idle hyperbolic boasting.

Fair enough. Galen himself has fought through an army of Force users who could use the Force more easily then humans breath oxygen on a Light Side nexus that hindered his connection to the Force ( before his prime I might add ) guess he was weakened similarly to the HoT before he fought Shaak and fried the Sarlaac as well. Why would his power at the beginning of the fight be immensely greater? Galen fought Vader on the Death Star and nobody brings up the point that he would have been immensely weaker upon facing Sidious. Vitiate's state before he was weakened doesn't matter since we're measuring HoT's power who's best feat in the Force is resisting a weakened Vitiate. And? Dooku could barely stand and was clutching at his side after his possession and incapacitation by Sidious. He lent enough power to match Maul who shouldn't be that far away from him under normal circumstances. What is your evidence for this assumption? Injuries have been showing to empower Darksiders before a great example being Caedus.

Plenty of time? 0_o He literally had until the Rogue Shadow made its way towards his position and until the reached orbit. He was thinking of it after he had already defeated Kazdan, musing on his capabilities. He knew it would have been foolish to do it because it would have made it much harder to gain evidence of Kazdan's defeat what with having to search for the Aleena's lightsaber underneath a mountain of rubble. Why did he need to use what ship? Well if Ell is wrong explain to me Vitiate's feat in more detail.

I'm saying actual capabilities, not musings on one's own overall power or opponents they think they're capable of beating though tbh I don't doubt that Anakin's power DID double by the time he met Dooku aboard the Invisible Hand.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Fair enough. Galen himself has fought through an army of Force users who could use the Force more easily then humans breath oxygen on a Light Side nexus that hindered his connection to the Force ( before his prime I might add ) guess he was weakened similarly to the HoT before he fought Shaak and fried the Sarlaac as well.

Do lightside nexus' actually weaken people? Felucia was swayed towards the light, but as Galen states there is darkness as well that he was touching. In any case, it isn't comparable. Sith and Imperial Guardsmen are completely above random Felucians and the Dark Temple is a far greater and more debilitating nexus than Felucia. Vitiate is also ridiculously above Shaak Ti.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Why would his power at the beginning of the fight be immensely greater?

😕

...... Seriously?

Obviously....... he would be a lot stronger before his power was depleted and he was exhausted and wounded at the end of an"apocalyptic duel". Because...... no shit.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Galen fought Vader on the Death Star and nobody brings up the point that he would have been immensely weaker upon facing Sidious.

Because Galen wasn't clearly weakened and exhausted at the end of the fight like Vitiate was. Galen was notable for his stamina and Vader didn't press him enough to tire him. Vitiate was visibly impacted.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Vitiate's state before he was weakened doesn't matter since we're measuring HoT's power who's best feat in the Force is resisting a weakened Vitiate.

Except..... the Hero was the person who beat him down to that state. They were the reason he was exhausted. It stands to reason that she'd have had to dea with his power at the start of the fight, which would be far greater than at the end of the fight.

Originally posted by Syndicate
And? Dooku could barely stand and was clutching at his side after his possession and incapacitation by Sidious. He lent enough power to match Maul who shouldn't be that far away from him under normal circumstances. What is your evidence for this assumption?

Good for Dooku. The difference is that he wasn't exhausted from a fight that he went into already massively debilitated, he was just shaking off possession.

It isn't an assumption that Vitiate was in far worse shape at the end of the fight than at the start. Because he was.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Injuries have been showing to empower Darksiders before a great example being Caedus.

Caedus is an exception given that he'd been taught to feed off of pain by the Vong or whatever. And there's a difference between some minor injuries and practically getting cut in half and crushed by a pillar. Vitiates ability to function at all would be significantly impacted by his injuries. That he was even capable of using the Force in that state is incredible.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Plenty of time? 0_o He literally had until the Rogue Shadow made its way towards his position and until the reached orbit.

Yes. Plenty of time given that he wasn't even worn out immediately after killing Paratus.

Originally posted by Syndicate
He was thinking of it after he had already defeated Kazdan, musing on his capabilities. He knew it would have been foolish to do it because it would have made it much harder to gain evidence of Kazdan's defeat what with having to search for the Aleena's lightsaber underneath a mountain of rubble.

He was thinking that he "could have" done it. Meaning he could have done it for the fight. Afterwards he says "if only it could be so easy to erase the Jedi from the galaxy", indicating that it would have been a way to erase Paratus. And you're making up reasons why he didn't.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Why did he need to use what ship?

The ship he used to break into the temple.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Well if Ell is wrong explain to me Vitiate's feat in more detail.

He starts to destroy the temple, Scourge states that he's destroying the temple and then he destroys the temple.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I'm saying actual capabilities, not musings on one's own overall power or opponents they think they're capable of beating though tbh I don't doubt that Anakin's power DID double by the time he met Dooku aboard the Invisible Hand.

😬

Anakin's power didn't double since last he'd met Dooku. That's ****ing idiotic. It'd been a few months. And Starkiller is just musing on his power, not his actual capabilities.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Do lightside nexus' actually weaken people? Felucia was swayed towards the light, but as Galen states there is darkness as well that he was touching. In any case, it isn't comparable. Sith and Imperial Guardsmen are completely above random Felucians and the Dark Temple is a far greater and more debilitating nexus than Felucia. Vitiate is also ridiculously above Shaak Ti.

😕

...... Seriously?

Obviously....... he would be a lot stronger before his power was depleted and he was exhausted and wounded at the end of an"apocalyptic duel". Because...... no shit.

Because Galen wasn't clearly weakened and exhausted at the end of the fight like Vitiate was. Galen was notable for his stamina and Vader didn't press him enough to tire him. Vitiate was visibly impacted.

Except..... the Hero was the person who beat him down to that state. They were the reason he was exhausted. It stands to reason that she'd have had to dea with his power at the start of the fight, which would be far greater than at the end of the fight.

Good for Dooku. The difference is that he wasn't exhausted from a fight that he went into already massively debilitated, he was just shaking off possession.

It isn't an assumption that Vitiate was in far worse shape at the end of the fight than at the start. Because he was.

Caedus is an exception given that he'd been taught to feed off of pain by the Vong or whatever. And there's a difference between some minor injuries and practically getting cut in half and crushed by a pillar. Vitiates ability to function at all would be significantly impacted by his injuries. That he was even capable of using the Force in that state is incredible.

Yes. Plenty of time given that he wasn't even worn out immediately after killing Paratus.

He was thinking that he "could have" done it. Meaning he could have done it for the fight. Afterwards he says "if only it could be so easy to erase the Jedi from the galaxy", indicating that it would have been a way to erase Paratus. And you're making up reasons why he didn't.

The ship he used to break into the temple.

He starts to destroy the temple, Scourge states that he's destroying the temple and then he destroys the temple.

😬

Anakin's power didn't double since last he'd met Dooku. That's ****ing idiotic. It'd been a few months. And Starkiller is just musing on his power, not his actual capabilities.

It's stated in the Force Unleashed that Galen's connection to the Dark Side of the Force felt weakened. Why is that? Sith and Imperial Guardsmen are fodder as far as I've seen. Felucians have actual demonstrated force barriers. How do you know that the LS nexus that diminished Galen's connection was any less potent? Obviously an LS nexus isn't going to affect to affect non force users in the same way. The effect would be positive rather then negative like the DS nexus. There's simply no way to tell.

What depleted his power? Dueling HoT? Galen dueled Vader and then went on to fight Sidious. Are we now recognizing these hindrances as things that actually matter? Because if we are Galen > Sidious is a thing. 🙂

So then your admitting Galen has greater force reserves then Vitiate? Noice.

You said that HoT only faced Vitiate after he had been weakened. Your CLAIM is that Vitiate weakened even further after the duel.

Not to mention lightning from Sidious. You're also not taking into account that we're only referring to Vitiate as he was when he first fought HoT already in a weakened state. Not him at his peak. Weakened Vitiate after a duel with HoT wouldn't have grown weaker then Dooku after being possessed by Talzin and electrocuted by Sidious.

Citation needed in regards to Caedus. Ventress was crushed by a pillar as well and it didn't seem to affect her fighting ability in any noticeable way. Cut in half? Against citation needed.

It doesn't matter if he was worn out or not. It matters that he expended the energy to accomplish the feats that I mentioned.

Lol of course he could have done it to defeat Kazdan. Your ignoring the fact that Vader had strict instructions to bring him back Kazdan's lightsaber. How would Galen have accomplished this if he had collapsed the temple on top of him?

If I'm not mistaken the ship lied directly in his path and he couldn't get around it without either moving it or going straight through it. I'll try to find the quote for you.

'The starship lay directly between him and Temple and was far too big to get around. That could take him hours. He would have to either go through the starship or move it. A slow smile crept across his face. Why be coy?" - The Force Unleashed.

Is the temple old/damaged/not in peak condition? Did he collapse the temple under his own power and in a single blast or does he begin to collapse the temple and gravity does the rest?

Stop ignoring context. The movie was referring to their meeting in AotC. The idiotic thing is ignoring creator intent.