You write in a pretty obnoxious way ngl. Don't know if I can be bothered to reply after this.
Originally posted by Syndicate
It's stated in the Force Unleashed that Galen's connection to the Dark Side of the Force felt weakened. Why is that? Sith and Imperial Guardsmen are fodder as far as I've seen. Felucians have actual demonstrated force barriers. How do you know that the LS nexus that diminished Galen's connection was any less potent? Obviously an LS nexus isn't going to affect to affect non force users in the same way. The effect would be positive rather then negative like the DS nexus. There's simply no way to tell.
I'm looking at the novel and I can't see that said.
Sith and Imperial Guardsmen are fodder..... but Felucians aren't. Right. Of course. Regardless of that "quaint" opinion, Sith in Vitiates Empire are required to overcome ridiculously tough trials to even become Sith and then are faced with constant challenges that make sure only the very best survive. And they were on a massively powerful nexus that they can channel far better than Felucians can. Imperial Guardsmen are stated to be so deadly that "even the mightiest of Sith Lords will lay down their lightsabers and accept the certain death at the hands" and are stated to be more skilled than Mandalorians. And near Vitiate they become almost impervious to Force Attacks.
Originally posted by Syndicate
What depleted his power? Dueling HoT? Galen dueled Vader and then went on to fight Sidious. Are we now recognizing these hindrances as things that actually matter? Because if we are Galen > Sidious is a thing. 🙂
Galen beat Vader, whereas Vitiate lost to the Hero. Obviously that would leave one of them in a better condition at the end of a fight than the other. Also, Vitiate went into the fight already depleted from his ritual failing.
Originally posted by Syndicate
So then your admitting Galen has greater force reserves then Vitiate? Noice.
This is pretty surreal. I think I may have been overestimating you before today. I don't remember you being this terrible before.
As said above, Vitiate was already depleted from his ritual failing. He went into the fight with his powers far less than his max. Then he got defeated by the HoT in a grueling duel that clearly caused him to further exhaust his power.
Originally posted by Syndicate
You said that HoT only faced Vitiate after he had been weakened. Your CLAIM is that Vitiate weakened even further after the duel.
That is the facts, yes. Vitiate was weakened from his ritual failing. Then he fought the Hero and is demonstrably weaker after they gain the upper hand and exhaust him. This is the truth.
Originally posted by Syndicate
Not to mention lightning from Sidious. You're also not taking into account that we're only referring to Vitiate as he was when he first fought HoT already in a weakened state. Not him at his peak. Weakened Vitiate after a duel with HoT wouldn't have grown weaker then Dooku after being possessed by Talzin and electrocuted by Sidious.
I'm pretty sure I am taking that into account, since it's my whole argument.
but no man u got me dooku > vitaite good jorb i cnceedee
This is asinine. What exactly are you trying to prove here? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Originally posted by Syndicate
Citation needed in regards to Caedus. Ventress was crushed by a pillar as well and it didn't seem to affect her fighting ability in any noticeable way. Cut in half? Against citation needed.
Read the wikipedia page, I don't have time to teach you basic aspects of every characters history. I will supply you with the fight though:
At 3.03 the Hero of Tython cuts through Vitiate pretty ****ing deeply. TBH I'm not sure how is legs are still attached. At 3.53 the Hero skewers him with a massive pillar that forms a huge crater around his body. Pretty sure thats a bit more extreme than what happened to Ventress.
Originally posted by Syndicate
It doesn't matter if he was worn out or not. It matters that he expended the energy to accomplish the feats that I mentioned.
And then had time to recover.
Originally posted by Syndicate
Lol of course he could have done it to defeat Kazdan. Your ignoring the fact that Vader had strict instructions to bring him back Kazdan's lightsaber. How would Galen have accomplished this if he had collapsed the temple on top of him?
Honestly I'm finding my ability to care receding as we continue. The fact is that he did not do it. I don't care what reason you make up to explain why he didn't do it. The fact is that he did not do it.
Originally posted by Syndicate
If I'm not mistaken the ship lied directly in his path and he couldn't get around it without either moving it or going straight through it. I'll try to find the quote for you.'The starship lay directly between him and Temple and was far too big to get around. That could take him hours. He would have to either go through the starship or move it. A slow smile crept across his face. Why be coy?" - The Force Unleashed.
Contradicted by the game and I think the comic as well.
Originally posted by Syndicate
Is the temple old/damaged/not in peak condition? Did he collapse the temple under his own power and in a single blast or does he begin to collapse the temple and gravity does the rest?
No/no/no. Yes, who can tell. We don't know how Galen would destroy the Junk Temple either since its an imaginary feat.
Originally posted by Syndicate
Stop ignoring context. The movie was referring to their meeting in AotC. The idiotic thing is ignoring creator intent.
Anakin says "since last we met", not "when u cut my hand off". They last met a few days before RotS I believe. Canon and Legends have made this quote laughable to take remotely seriously.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Did Neph just apply suspension of disbelief over authorial intent with regards to "my powers have doubled since the last time we met"?I suspect that the hypocrisies exposed by this precedent would make a pretty big impact on a debater more interested in rationality or consistency. mmm
You can't just ignore context my friend. Why the hell would Anakin have said "My powers have doubled." In the few days since they'd met. That would have been absolutely retarded if they were taking LoE into account which they obviously weren't.
Will respond to the rest of your post tomorrow Neph. You should also know if our debate expand to where we have to post 2 posts to cover the entirety of our response because of character limitations, I'm outie.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You write in a pretty obnoxious way ngl. Don't know if I can be bothered to reply after this.I'm looking at the novel and I can't see that said.
Sith and Imperial Guardsmen are fodder..... but Felucians aren't. Right. Of course. Regardless of that "quaint" opinion, Sith in Vitiates Empire are required to overcome ridiculously tough trials to even become Sith and then are faced with constant challenges that make sure only the very best survive. And they were on a massively powerful nexus that they can channel far better than Felucians can. Imperial Guardsmen are stated to be so deadly that "even the mightiest of Sith Lords will lay down their lightsabers and accept the certain death at the hands" and are stated to be more skilled than Mandalorians. And near Vitiate they become almost impervious to Force Attacks.
Galen beat Vader, whereas Vitiate lost to the Hero. Obviously that would leave one of them in a better condition at the end of a fight than the other. Also, Vitiate went into the fight already depleted from his ritual failing.
This is pretty surreal. I think I may have been overestimating you before today. I don't remember you being this terrible before.
As said above, Vitiate was already depleted from his ritual failing. He went into the fight with his powers far less than his max. Then he got defeated by the HoT in a grueling duel that clearly caused him to further exhaust his power.
That is the facts, yes. Vitiate was weakened from his ritual failing. Then he fought the Hero and is demonstrably weaker after they gain the upper hand and exhaust him. This is the truth.
I'm pretty sure I am taking that into account, since it's my whole argument.
but no man u got me dooku > vitaite good jorb i cnceedee
This is asinine. What exactly are you trying to prove here? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Read the wikipedia page, I don't have time to teach you basic aspects of every characters history. I will supply you with the fight though:
At 3.03 the Hero of Tython cuts through Vitiate pretty ****ing deeply. TBH I'm not sure how is legs are still attached. At 3.53 the Hero skewers him with a massive pillar that forms a huge crater around his body. Pretty sure thats a bit more extreme than what happened to Ventress.
And then had time to recover.
Honestly I'm finding my ability to care receding as we continue. The fact is that he did not do it. I don't care what reason you make up to explain why he didn't do it. The fact is that he did not do it.
Contradicted by the game and I think the comic as well.
No/no/no. Yes, who can tell. We don't know how Galen would destroy the Junk Temple either since its an imaginary feat.
Anakin says "since last we met", not "when u cut my hand off". They last met a few days before RotS I believe. Canon and Legends have made this quote laughable to take remotely seriously.
"There was still darkness on Felucia, but it was stifled, frustrated, weakened." - The Force Unleashed.
That's obviously not the case since we see Imperial Guardsmen treated like fodder by named characters. The nexus argument applies to the Felucians as well.
Who are you arguing for, Vitiate or HoT? I'm saying that regardless of the outcome both of these characters faced powerful opponents beforehand before then going on to accomplish their respective feats. Galen's just happen to be more impressive.
You're saying that his fight with HoT was somehow something that should have weakened him more then Galen in his fight with Vader and Imperial Forces. Sorry if I'm a little skeptical of that kind of logic.
Why would his duel with HoT have weakened his force capabilities to an appreciable degree? What are you basing this off of?
Dooku > Vitiate? What the hell are you talking about? I'm saying that there's no reason Vitiate should have been weakened further in his fight with HoT to a greater degree then Dooku himself was after he had been possessed/electrocuted.
If you can't provide the evidence I'll simply take that as a concession. Lol, Vitiate wasn't sliced in half. He was struck by a lightsaber blow that we don't the depth of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VB_vjVxcic
4:49. The pillar collapses the stone stairs Ventress had been standing on.
He had until the Rogue Shadow picked him up and took him to orbit which should've been less then an hour. You think that's enough time for Galen to fully recover?
He didn't do it because it would have gone against his master's orders. Simple as that. I don't really care if you think that's the case or not. It's just logic.
The game never had the ship in the first place and the maps on the different versions are all different from eachother. The comic doesn't even mention it.
Given the feat he accomplished less then an hour prior I'd imagine he could simply demolish it wholesale. He created a hurricane and hurled thousands of droids into the air by continuously blasting the aforementioned debris with TK.
It would make no sense if they were referring to Legends as they had just met literally less then a day before. Unless they're painting Anakin out as blithering idiot they obviously meant it to refer to AotC. The novelization supports this saying that Dooku thought Anakin and Obi Wan's forms were Shii Cho and Ataru respectively. This wouldn't make sense if they were taking all the times they met before into consideration.
Originally posted by Syndicate
Can I ask why you believe that to be the case? Weakened Vitiate has demonstrated temple busting TK but Galen was capable of that by Raxus Prime around the time of his fight with Kazdan after he had already thought potentially thousands of droids and created a hurricane by hurling all of their parts into the air and then muses on collapsing the artificial temple Kazdan had constructed.
Dark Temple is much more heavily build then an average building. The walls are extremely thick and the place is imbued with Sith Sorcery that prevents even Sith spirits from escaping its premises.
Wrecking the Dark Temple is a much more impressive showing then collapsing an average building.
Originally posted by Syndicate
Galen after that point has feats superior to even that. I could agree that a fight between Vitiate and Starkiller or Revan and Starkiller would be much closer but between HoT and Starkiller I don't see it.
Originally posted by Syndicate
That being said I do agree that Vitiate is superior to anyone here with Exar Kun close behind so I imagine those two would pair off and then Starkiller and Revan and then Kyp and HoT. The fight really depends then on whether Kyp beats HoT or Vitiate beats Exar Kun first. In my opinion HoT would fall to Kyp first and then lend his power to Exar Kun.
Assuming that Hero of Tython confronts Kyp Durron; the former should be able to endure powers of the latter, close the gap, and force a melee clash where Hero of Tython would have significant advantage.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Artificial Temple? Can you provide me some details?Dark Temple is much more heavily build then an average building. The walls are extremely thick and the place is imbued with Sith Sorcery that prevents even Sith spirits from escaping its premises.
Wrecking the Dark Temple is a much more impressive showing then collapsing an average building.
Vitiate was clearly amped well beyond his normal level of power at that point. Forget the fact that he was stated as weakened, or that his body was just killed, because the nexus means he was unfairly amped and the feat cannot be used.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
BUT NEXUS!!!!!Vitiate was clearly amped well beyond his normal level of power at that point. Forget the fact that he was stated as weakened, or that his body was just killed, because the nexus means he was unfairly amped and the feat cannot be used.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Artificial Temple? Can you provide me some details?Dark Temple is much more heavily build then an average building. The walls are extremely thick and the place is imbued with Sith Sorcery that prevents even Sith spirits from escaping its premises.
Wrecking the Dark Temple is a much more impressive showing then collapsing an average building.
Hero of Tython became the most powerful Jedi of his era. When you are the most powerful Jedi of an era, it translates to you being one of the most powerful in galactic history as well. Hero of Tython is not aggressive at using the Force but he is more powerful then the likes of Barsen'thor III, Satele Shan, Jaric Kaedan and Tol Braga. Satele Shan and Barsen'thor III have superior showing then Count Dooku; Satele Shan is implied to be on par with Darth Marr.
The aforementioned details should tell you that Hero of Tython is not a pushover for any foe in this thread.
Assuming that Hero of Tython confronts Kyp Durron; the former should be able to endure powers of the latter, close the gap, and force a melee clash where Hero of Tython would have significant advantage.
Yes. It was a to scale model of the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. Here's a description of it from the novel.
"The apprentice ascended cautiously to the foyer, where buckled armor plates had been hammered as close to flat as was possible and welded into approximately level floors. Abandoned thrust tubes stood in for marble columns. Sensor arrays made reasonable facsimiles of window frames, and curving tank walls created the illusion of arched ceilings high above." - The Force Unleashed.
The temple as you can see is described as being made up of old ship armor plating and tank armor so it would be extremely durable. It was also made by a madmen who wanted to make the temple as close to real life as possible given the detail he put into making a matching replica of it.
What are Thor and Satele's superior showings when unamped?
How will he force a melee clash in a Force only contest?