Originally posted by tkitna
That's because there isn't a huge speed gap between them. Some people on here think that just because Darkseid fights Superman and WW he's automatically faster than Thanos although Thanos swats around Surfer and heralds all the time. Never understood it.
Originally posted by tkitna
Thanos treats Surfer (whos a superior character) like a child all the time so once again your wrong. Heck recently he was seen tossing numerous Thors around with the utmost of ease. You need to lighten up.
This
Originally posted by leonidas
i'd take diana. morg would fight like a brute and that would play straight into diana's hands. strength is a wash imo. diana is more skilled and far faster at close range if she needed to be and of course the whole rope thing. be a brutal battle. if diana had her sword she'd eviscerate him.
Speed and skill typically only take characters so far. When it's a tier or two above the skillful character they can often get by with difficulty, but when the gap extends to 3 tiers above them? Diana would need help against Morg, and the lasso isn't a for sure win. Diana has been hit, so it's not like she is an impossible to hit character. This is Morg's fight to lose and he'd literally have to be standing there unwilling to fight back for her to take the majority. Diana is not going to take on all of the heralds that Morg had fleeing for their lives. That battle wasn't even a contest for him.
morg is a mid-herald imo. he is, for certain, below ss. when ss got serious, he wrecked morg without any real problems--though a planet was destroyed by the 2 of them. i think morg is being overrrated--by a fairly large degree. this isn't him w/wol. i def think he and diana are in the same tier and she has advantages he can't logically overcome. abc doesn't apply, of course....
Originally posted by leonidas
morg is a mid-herald imo. he is, for certain, below ss. when ss got serious, he wrecked morg without any real problems--though a planet was destroyed by the 2 of them. i think morg is being overrrated--by a fairly large degree. this isn't him w/wol. i def think he and diana are in the same tier and she has advantages he can't logically overcome. abc doesn't apply, of course....
That was when Morg had only the Power Cosmic. Morg was a High Herald with the PC alone. Surfer just had more experience using it. Diana is a Mid Herald. If Morg was a Mid Herald like Black Bolt, Thanos would have hit him so hard it would have knocked his balls loose. This did not happen. Morg was on equal footing with Thanos before being blind sided. A Mid Herald does not take on all of the Heralds of Galactus and have them running for their lives. When the Surfer defeated Morg, he had just recovered from being brought back from the dead. That one fight taken at face value, ignores critical context that surrounded Morg's effectiveness as a combatant.
The OP does not state what level Morg is on, and thus we should go with the most powerful, and latest version of the character, which is him not just being raised from the dead, but at full capacity.
Morg with just the PC would beat WW.
Morg With just the WOL would lose.
Morg with PC and WOL would easily destroy her.
Originally posted by StoicThor stomped Thanos, so did Thing and Groot, so did SG, so did Gamora, etc. ABC logic doesn't work . ABC logic only works for characters of similar powerset. None of characters Morg fought has Diana powerset. By your logic Surfer should be on par with Thanos since he did well against Morg. How does he get around her speed or lasso or skill?
That was when Morg had only the Power Cosmic. Morg was a High Herald with the PC alone. Surfer just had more experience using it. Diana is a Mid Herald. If Morg was a Mid Herald like Black Bolt, Thanos would have hit him so hard it would have knocked his balls loose. This did not happen. Morg was on equal footing with Thanos before being blind sided. A Mid Herald does not take on all of the Heralds of Galactus and have them running for their lives. When the Surfer defeated Morg, he had just recovered from being brought back from the dead. That one fight taken at face value, ignores critical context that surrounded Morg's effectiveness as a combatant.The OP does not state what level Morg is on, and thus we should go with the most powerful, and latest version of the character, which is him not just being raised from the dead, but at full capacity.
Morg with just the PC would beat WW.
Morg With just the WOL would lose.
Morg with PC and WOL would easily destroy her.
Originally posted by h1a8
Thor stomped Thanos, so did Thing and Groot, so did SG, so did Gamora, etc. ABC logic doesn't work . ABC logic only works for characters of similar powerset. None of characters Morg fought has Diana powerset. By your logic Surfer should be on par with Thanos since he did well against Morg. How does he get around her speed or lasso or skill?
Scans of Thor stomping Thanos without being armed to the teeth with mystically enhanced items that were made to be nearly as powerful as Mjonir. Thanos was in H2H combat with Gamora. If he used his powers she would have died, which shows once again that you don't know what you're talking about. Groot hit Thanos while he was weakened and it did not stop him. What you're using are times when the characters are weakened or given power to compete with then. Pretty slimy talent that you have going for you.
Again Morg does not have to get into a fisticuffs with Diana. Diana does not possess Cosmic Awareness!!! How would she know that Morg just flexing his chest could mean that he's not sending out a planet destroying pulse of energy? He did this the minute that he found and gained the powers given him by the Waters of Life. When Morg had that brief run in with Thanos, Thanos was neither weakened or near death. None of the low ball attempts that you sat there and thought up actually apply here.
And Morg had just been revived when he fought the Surfer, and fought Terrax. This isn't ABC logic. Either Diana can stand up to the threats that Morg did or she can not.
Originally posted by leonidas
morg is a mid-herald imo. he is, for certain, below ss. when ss got serious, he wrecked morg without any real problems--though a planet was destroyed by the 2 of them. i think morg is being overrrated--by a fairly large degree. this isn't him w/wol. i def think he and diana are in the same tier and she has advantages he can't logically overcome. abc doesn't apply, of course....
Originally posted by Stoic
Morg with just the PC would beat WW.Morg With just the WOL would lose.
Morg with PC and WOL would easily destroy her.
Originally posted by zopzop
You do realize that Morg fought through FIrelord and Airwalker (and I think Terrax too) on his way to fight the Surfer right?Morg with just WoL would still beat her. It took multiple heralds to put him down with just WoL.
Now you're just wanking Morg.
Originally posted by Stoic
That was when Morg had only the Power Cosmic. Morg was a High Herald with the PC alone. Surfer just had more experience using it. Diana is a Mid Herald. If Morg was a Mid Herald like Black Bolt, Thanos would have hit him so hard it would have knocked his balls loose. This did not happen. Morg was on equal footing with Thanos before being blind sided. A Mid Herald does not take on all of the Heralds of Galactus and have them running for their lives. When the Surfer defeated Morg, he had just recovered from being brought back from the dead. That one fight taken at face value, ignores critical context that surrounded Morg's effectiveness as a combatant.The OP does not state what level Morg is on, and thus we should go with the most powerful, and latest version of the character, which is him not just being raised from the dead, but at full capacity.
Morg with just the PC would beat WW.
Morg With just the WOL would lose.
Morg with PC and WOL would easily destroy her.
starfox has rocked thanos, and even frickin ka-zar took it to a thanosi.... chock it up to pis, whatever. it was made abundantly clear ss>morg, so not sure what else there is to say about it. we've seen firelord take it to ss as well, so, yeah. there are several in the mid herald tier i'd take over morg btw. gladiator, black bolt, cap marvel and adam to name just a few.
using the thanos showing is irrelevant (or at least is certainly not the ba-all-end-all of thie discussion) and abc logic failz as usual. he has no counter for speed, she can counter his axe pretty easily with her own weapon or bracers, there is certainly no proof whatsoever he is stronger, and he can't counter the lasso. saying 'but he beat firelord and terrax!!' is meaningless to this fight as he did nothing in those fights that would translate to him beating diana.
i don't see how this match is truly debatable tbh. i mean it's not like she hasn't fought on equal terms with numerous high heralds and gods, so morg really doesn't bring anything new to the table. he's a brute with an axe who can mix in some energy blasts. i see no way at all to consider him a high herald given how easily ss dealt with him when he was po'd.
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/6253/206295-1184032_silver_surfer_annual_07_33_super_super.jpg
that is the result of their battle after ss took the gloves off. it isn't 'context based at all.' unless you can somehow prove he was actually weak in that battle for whatever reason cuz i don't recall that. ss isn't even winded, was never truly threatened and in the end, the fight wasn't even close.....
i'd take ww in this almost every time and i'd def place stardust above morg in the herald category.
Originally posted by leonidas
starfox has rocked thanos, and even frickin ka-zar took it to a thanosi.... chock it up to pis, whatever. it was made abundantly clear ss>morg, so not sure what else there is to say about it. we've seen firelord take it to ss as well, so, yeah. there are several in the mid herald tier i'd take over morg btw. gladiator, black bolt, cap marvel and adam to name just a few.using the thanos showing is irrelevant (or at least is certainly not the ba-all-end-all of thie discussion) and abc logic failz as usual. he has no counter for speed, she can counter his axe pretty easily with her own weapon or bracers, there is certainly no proof whatsoever he is stronger, and he can't counter the lasso. saying 'but he beat firelord and terrax!!' is meaningless to this fight as he did nothing in those fights that would translate to him beating diana.
i don't see how this match is truly debatable tbh. i mean it's not like she hasn't fought on equal terms with numerous high heralds and gods, so morg really doesn't bring anything new to the table. he's a brute with an axe who can mix in some energy blasts. i see no way at all to consider him a high herald given how easily ss dealt with him when he was po'd.
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/6253/206295-1184032_silver_surfer_annual_07_33_super_super.jpg
that is the result of their battle after ss took the gloves off. it isn't 'context based at all.' unless you can somehow prove he was actually weak in that battle for whatever reason cuz i don't recall that. ss isn't even winded, was never truly threatened and in the end, the fight wasn't even close.....
i'd take ww in this almost every time and i'd def place stardust above morg in the herald category.
Starfox rocking Thanos is far different than Morg, and you know that he's at a much lower level than Morg was at when he nearly killed all of those Heralds. Let's not pretend that Morg was some Mid herald when he soundly defeated the Surfer in their first meeting. You PIS happens statement can be turned around to reflect Surfer's win over Morg as you may now realize. Without the WOL and possessing only the PC, Morg was able to defeat the Surfer. I'd place very large odds on him not being a Mid level Herald as you've attempted to state.
You don't know how this is up for debate? Let's not attempt to drag Morg down to her level. If you are trying to make it seem as if WW has the ability to not only take on all of those heralds, but to make them flee for their lives, present your case. Otherwise, she is clearly below him in every way that matter, besides martial ability, and it isn't as if he's defenseless.
Again you show up with a scan of the Surfer defeating Morg as if that is some low showing, but did not feel the urge to present the scan/s of Morg thoroughly defeating the Surfer. So what this still does not make then tied. Morg defeated him twice. How did that make the Surfer the champ? In other words let's give credit where it's due, and not make this appear to be about Morg suddenly becoming a bum ass scrub.
Stardust couldn't even defeat Beta Ray Bill, how is it that you believe that he would be able to complete the feats that Morg did? Are you blind or being selective over the showings that these characters have had? Diana is not in Morg's weight class. I also noticed that you completely ignored certain events that happened to Morg prior to his loss at the Surfer's hands. Morg didn't fight the Surfer in a rested state, he had it out with other Heralds before the fight.
You can feel free to favor WW in this match, but it will be very difficult to make a case for her against a character that easily defeated all of those Heralds. She has no counter for his superior strength and power level. Morg did not have to use his hands to set off omni direction blasts. Her flight speed isn't any better than his, and I would like for you to show me all of the times that many characters have failed to hit her vs the ones that have. I have rarely if ever seen Diana fighting like a DBZ character. All of this left behind looking like a statue nonsense does not work all of the time, especially not to beings capable of reacting. Morg did well against thanos, your attempts at discrediting the scene, and pretending that Morg is a Starfox level being is laughable.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not to mention Terrax stalemated him for a dozen pages in SS 80.
@Leonidas
You realize Morg was just recently resurrected after being dead for a while when he got into that fight right?
that is the result of their battle after ss took the gloves off. it isn't 'context based at all.' unless you can somehow prove he was actually weak in that battle for whatever reason cuz i don't recall that. ss isn't even winded, was never truly threatened and in the end, the fight wasn't even close.....
EDIT :
He didnt' fight Terrax he fought and destroyed Firelord and Air Walker AND THEN he was jumped by Surfer :
http://imgur.com/a/U1YX2#0
http://imgur.com/a/TlDWz#0
So let's put that second Surfer/Morg fight in context.
Originally posted by zopzop
@Leonidas
The fact that he plowed through Firelord, Airwalker, and I think Terrax too on his way to face off vs Surfer should be taken into consideration here.EDIT :
He didnt' fight Terrax he fought and destroyed Firelord and Air Walker AND THEN he was jumped by Surfer :
http://imgur.com/a/U1YX2#0
http://imgur.com/a/TlDWz#0So let's put that second Surfer/Morg fight in context. [/B]
Notice how in those scans, Morg takes time to gloat (PIS moment). He had more than enough time to finish the Surfer off. What baffles me is that people are using the Surfer to somehow make it seem like Wonder Woman would have done as good of a job. She needs help to tow a planet, these guys could blow one up individually. Notice how Morg is taking care of Firelord, and is fast enough to turn around and deflect Airwalker's hand blast, but he's being made out to be as slow as a turtle. Notice also how far the heralds of Galactus can perceive an imminent attack. Firelord notices something streaking towards him from a great distance, which shows how quickly they can react. The real kicker here as I stated earlier, are how people have pegged Morg to be a weakling from that one showing, but disregard their first and second battle when Morg was at the top of his game. How does this translate into Wonder Woman doing just as well as the Surfer?
Originally posted by Genii96That's not a good argument at all. That's like saying that since Dwayne Johnson can beat up multiple low skilled humans then he can beat up a human that's not only twice as fast but has a gun.
morg stomps diana.....with just his PC he is high herald level,almost as good as surfer....with WOL alone,it took multiple heralds to beat him....with PC and WOL he is in a different tier completely
ABC logic only works if characters have similar power set. None of the characters Morg fought have the skill, combat speed, reflexes, and lasso of WW.
Think about it, if WW can simultaneously block multiple light speed attacks with 100% consistency then she can easily block physical attacks moving thousands of times slower.
Morg has no answer for the lasso. People are simply ignoring the lasso or assuming that the two will be fighting at the same speed and skill level. WW, at her best can lasso him in the first second of battle. This would be a better fight if she didn't have the lasso.
Finally, imagine if these two characters actually fought in real life. Would both be moving at similar speeds or will WW be moving at several multiples faster than Morg? Would WW see Morgs attacks multiples slower than light speed? You see how forum fights differ than comic ones?
