8 year old girl shot by 11 year old boy

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34450841

According to police, he shot the girl on Saturday evening with his father's shotgun after she refused to let him see her puppy.

The girl has been identified as McKayla Dyer. Her mother Latasha said that the two children went to the same school.

"He was making fun of her, calling her names, just being mean to her. He quit for a while and then all of a sudden yesterday he shot her," Ms Dyer told WATE-TV.

It's messed up things like this happen so often. And I think this has definitely a misogynist component. The history between those two sounds exactly like what is often excused with "boys will be boys"...

"The Gun Violence Archive, a not-for-profit organisation that compiles data on gun violence in the US, says 559 children aged 11 or under have been killed or injured in the United States in gun violence so far this year." (http://www.gunviolencearchive.org).

559 children, and this is entirely preventable, no other first world country has this problem. Of course gun control is one of the prime target, and definitely a very valid one, but what other actual solutions do you think can be implemented to prevent this?

HOW THE **** DOES AN 11 YR OLD HAVE ACCESS TO A SHOTGUN

( i was 12)

but seriously even for an 11 year old that is a stupid reason to shoot a 8 year old girl

She should have stayed in the kitchen.

Originally posted by Bardock42
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34450841

It's messed up things like this happen so often. And I think this has definitely a misogynist component. The history between those two sounds exactly like what is often excused with "boys will be boys"...

"The Gun Violence Archive, a not-for-profit organisation that compiles data on gun violence in the US, says 559 children aged 11 or under have been killed or injured in the United States in gun violence so far this year." (http://www.gunviolencearchive.org).

559 children, and this is entirely preventable, no other first world country has this problem. Of course gun control is one of the prime target, and definitely a very valid one, but what other actual solutions do you think can be implemented to prevent this?

Absolutely awful.

More awful than you bringing up misogyny (seriously, what the hell, man), but yeah...

Poor kid.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Absolutely awful.

More awful than you bringing up misogyny (seriously, what the hell, man), but yeah...

Poor kid.

Yeah, talking about very real problems that lead to so much violence against girls and women is almost as bad as a girl being shot. Don't be ridiculous.

And of course this played a huge part in this, it's exactly what feminists talk about, male entitlement leading to violence against girls and women. The boy thought she has to show him her puppy or else. Being silent about it is just stupid.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, talking about very real problems that lead to so much violence against girls and women is almost as bad as a girl being shot. Don't be ridiculous.

And of course this played a huge part in this, it's exactly what feminists talk about, male entitlement leading to violence against girls and women. The boy thought she has to show him her puppy or else. Being silent about it is just stupid.

Or he was just a child that hadn't developed common sense yet.

Seriously dude, way over the line. It's an awful tragedy, and you trying to colour it with this kind of... I don't even know the word.

Just seems in really bad taste to me. You don't agree, fine by me.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Or he was just a child that hadn't developed common sense yet.

Seriously dude, way over the line. It's an awful tragedy, and you trying to colour it with this kind of... I don't even know the word.

Just seems in really bad taste to me. You don't agree, fine by me.

No, he was a child that has grown up in a society that doesn't respect women and sends him messages that they have to do what he wants.

Of course I don't agree, I in fact find the opposite, I find it sick of you to pretend it doesn't play a part, it's exactly like Republicans going on television to distract from gun control by blaming mental illness.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, he was a child that has grown up in a society that doesn't respect women and sends him messages that they have to do what he wants.

Of course I don't agree, I in fact find the opposite, I find it sick of you to pretend it doesn't play a part, it's exactly like Republicans going on television to distract from gun control by blaming mental illness.

I guess that's that then. shrug

Originally posted by -Pr-
I guess that's that then. shrug

Sure.

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"He was making fun of her, calling her names, just being mean to her. "

Again, this is exactly the kind of stuff that happens all the time, and is often met with bullshit like "that means he likes you". Screw that, we need to teach boys that it is not alright to treat girls like that. It's not cutesy when it's just that, and it does lead to rampant violence against women.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, talking about very real problems that lead to so much violence against girls and women is almost as bad as a girl being shot. Don't be ridiculous.

And of course this played a huge part in this, it's exactly what feminists talk about, male entitlement leading to violence against girls and women. The boy thought she has to show him her puppy or else. Being silent about it is just stupid.

While I definitively see this angle, bad parenting gives all kind of kids a concept of self-entitlement that can explain this as well. We can agree that a little girl will be less inclined to weapon up and shoot because of gender roles, but mysoginy is still a strong word to describe that difference.

People also get objectified without the gender angle.

Originally posted by Bentley
While I definitively see this angle, bad parenting gives all kind of kids a concept of self-entitlement that can explain this as well. We can agree that a little girl will be less inclined to weapon up and shoot because of gender roles, but mysoginy is still a strong word to describe that difference.

People also get objectified without the gender angle.

I think misogyny is the correct word to describe it. And like I said in the original post there's many contributing factors, and possibly many solutions. But the one of widespread misogyny seems very apparent to me here, it's like a textbook case.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think misogyny is the correct word to describe it. And like I said in the original post there's many contributing factors, and possibly many solutions. But the one of widespread misogyny seems very apparent to me here, it's like a textbook case.

What it's clear is that you've learned from TI about reading things that aren't in the article 😉

As I mentioned in my first post, you are probably right, but I can only reply to that as an intuition. We don't care about what happened in this particular instance (as the only particulars are given by the mom of the victim, hardly a neutral part), but in the general case of violence between children, which cannot truly evaluated without some number crunching.

How many little girls are killers (of other girls or boys) when compared with the amount of young murderers? How much of a percentage of the kills acheived by boys are against females? With those numbers we can try to draw some conclusions, but the rest would be educated guesses at best.

Originally posted by Bentley
What it's clear is that you've learned from TI about reading things that aren't in the article 😉

As I mentioned in my first post, you are probably right, but I can only reply to that as an intuition. We don't care about what happened in this particular instance (as the only particulars are given by the mom of the victim, hardly a neutral part), but in the general case of violence between children, which cannot truly evaluated without some number crunching.

How many little girls are killers (of other girls or boys) when compared with the amount of young murderers? How much of a percentage of the kills acheived by boys are against females? With those numbers we can try to draw some conclusions, but the rest would be educated guesses at best.

While I do appreciate that "you are like TI" has become the insult du jour on the forum, I have quoted what I believe to be the parts of the article that support my reading of the sitution.

And sure, lets do that: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3

Murder offenders by gender between the ages of 0-16 in the US in the year 2011.

Female: 29
Male: 308

Literally a magnitude higher. But I'm sure there's no gender issue.

I did say there was a gender issue, my reading was that it's not related to mysoginy. The number you brought pretty much backs up my notion (that guns are perceived to be "for boys"😉, but doesn't justify any mysoginy claims by itself.

Unless your point is that young girls should get equal access to guns?

The actual relevant numbers for the mysoginy claim is that whether girls are the preferred target of children killings.

Originally posted by Bentley
I did say there was a gender issue, my reading was that it's not related to mysoginy. The number you brought pretty much backs up my notion (that guns are perceived to be "for boys"😉, but doesn't justify any mysoginy claims by itself.

Unless your point is that young girls should get equal access to guns?

The actual relevant numbers for the mysoginy claim is that whether girls are the preferred target of children killings.

The fact that girls and women are predominantly victims of domestic violence and domestic killings is the statistical support for the claim. This story is only an anecdotal addition to the misogyny based violence.

And that's not the actual relevant number. The relevant number is for what reasons girls are killed vs. what reasons boys are killed. Because you have to factor out, for example, gang killings which are not gender motivated.

So there's two issues, boys are taught to be more violent and boys are taught to not value girls and women as people as much. These work together and both should be addressed.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And that's not the actual relevant number. The relevant number is for what reasons are girls killed.

Glad we agree that much more in depth analysis is necessary to claim this is mysogynist. There was nothing evident pushing us to the gender violence narrative other than the example of violence between genders on a later age. This goes to dismiss children violence as a mere extension of it's adult counterpart.

Is there a problem of violence against women? Obviously. Is the gender male stereotype to blame in most cases? Certainly.

Are we using mysogynism as a blanket word for crimes against females? Because maybe that's the thing I misunderstood. I don't go assuming that because violence against woman happens in a macho society the crime will have a mysogynistic motivation by default. By sheer numbers, violence against women has to happen.

I was thinking mysogynism was more of an objectification process that discards women as subpeople or something akin to that?

Originally posted by Bentley
Glad we agree that much more in depth analysis is necessary to claim this is mysogynist. There was nothing evident pushing us to the gender violence narrative other than the example of violence between genders on a later age.

I was thinking mysogynism was more of an objectification process that discards women as subpeople or something akin to that?

Obviously I do not agree with this at all.

Yes that is sort of correct, of course it's more complicated, but I believe this process which is very common in western society is a large factor in this killing and many other killings of women. Again, the boys behaviour previous to the shooting as described by the article has been a very common behaviour of boys towards girl that is condoned by misogynist society rather than worked against.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Obviously I do not agree with this at all.

Yes that is sort of correct, of course it's more complicated, but I believe this process which is very common in western society is a large factor in this killing and many other killings of women. Again, the boys behaviour as described by the article has been a very common behaviour of boys towards girl that is condoned by misogynist society rather than worked against.

Ok, I see where you're going with that. It's probably hard to portray it as a problem related with child killings because these behaviours can have consequences at a much later age or give emotional scars. So yes, I agree these activities can be linked with later crimes and domestic violence, I was just under the impresion that those weren't immediate to the topic at hand (my confusion might come from your comment coming from the OP).

Hmm, I guess what I was trying to make the topic in the OP is for posters to talk about what issues they feel contribute to the very common gun violence in the US and what solutions they think would work.

I for my part added misogyny as one of the problems I think contribute to it, and that I think a part-solution is to not condone violent behaviour, excessively competitive behaviour, and disrespectful behaviour towards women particularly by young boys.

You can of course add your own opinions of what contributes.

he is an 11 year old boy who evidently has temper issues not sapped out of him through his face ( i usualls endorse ass whacking thou)

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
She should have stayed in the kitchen.

where else would she get the knives to protect herself and that puppy

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sure.

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"He was making fun of her, calling her names, just being mean to her. "

Again, this is exactly the kind of stuff that happens all the time, and is often met with bullshit like "that means he likes you". Screw that, we need to teach boys that it is not alright to treat girls like that. It's not cutesy when it's just that, and it does lead to rampant violence against women.

wrong it means he is a jerk who needs to be dealt with. if he was 6 years old and calling names, he would be chided by the parents. 8 years old and doing what he is, he would be disciplined. 11 years old is enough to know guns make a serious mess of people but if he had continued without the gun he would be smacked by another adult for picking on a 8 year old girl. for christ sakes no one in therir right mind would say "its because he likes you" at that age