8 year old girl shot by 11 year old boy

Started by red g jacks9 pages

actually you did... maybe not those exact words but the same sentiment.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So there's two issues, boys are taught to be more violent and boys are taught to not value girls and women as people as much. These work together and both should be addressed.

....

but anyway..

Originally posted by Bardock42
This is just not a true representation of my point. I never said that female lives are valued less.

What I am saying is that the type of bullying as described in the story is often excused or even condoned when done by boys to girl.

If the victim in this case had been male, many of the reasons I gave earlier would still apply, however the condoning of disrespectful male behaviour when it comes to girl would not apply.

i'm wondering where you're basing the idea that boys picking on girls is generally condoned more than boys picking on boys....?

Are you pretending that valuing someone as a person and valuing someone's life is the same statement?

Reality.

when the result is supposedly making person A more likely to shoot/kill person B... i would say yea they're effectively the same thing.

and your reality must not include the popular campaigns against bullying that have emerged in the last few years.. all of a sudden bullying is seen as some sort of national epidemic.... but that's cause we don't care as a society, right? boys will be boys and other 1950's tv slogans, right? isn't that fonz character cool looking with his leather jacket and his endless talent for procuring the lesser sex? #rapeculture

Originally posted by red g jacks
when the result is supposedly making person A more likely to shoot/kill person B... i would say yea they're effectively the same thing.

I think I and others have pointed out how men are in other ways more likely to be killed (suicide, gang related crimes, as soldiers (although that's a more complicated topic)). One can completely value someone as an object and not as a person and it can be beneficial to their life expectancy.

A good example of this is the recent Mad Max, btw. The women were definitely thought of as objects and property, but being highly priced in that way made their lives be more valuable than those of the men...

Originally posted by red g jacks
and your reality must not include the popular campaigns against bullying that have emerged in the last few years.. all of a sudden bullying is seen as some sort of national epidemic.... but that's cause we don't care as a society, right? boys will be boys and all that, right? #rapeculture

Of course there's been improvements made over the years, it's still not done though. You really need to stop fighting these straw men of my arguments. It's actually not that hard to not misrepresent other people

when i ask you direct questions i don't get direct answers

"reality"...? really?

so don't whine about me misrepresenting your views when you respond like that.

Originally posted by red g jacks
when i ask you direct questions i don't get direct answers

"reality"...? really?

so don't whine about me misrepresenting your views when you respond like that.

How are those two related, you are not owed answers, but if you pretend that someone said something that they didn't that's just silly.

And whining? Idk, I'd prefer if you made valid points that are in any way related to what was talked about (hence why I made this thread), it's not fun for me to just have to reply with "that's not what I said" every time you post either, but I think I'll get over it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
How are those two related, you are not owed answers, but if you pretend that someone said something that they didn't that's just silly.
it's also silly to complain that i'm not responding to your viewpoint accurately when you give me vague answers like that. my post was at least 75% humor/mockery... so if my material doesn't fit you precisely then that's cause you aren't giving me proper input, buddy. of course you aren't required to do so. then my jokes will just continue to not accurately reflect your viewpoint. i would prefer to accurately mock your viewpoint, but i am only human and can only work with what i'm given, bardock.

And whining? Idk, I'd prefer if you made valid points that are in any way related to what was talked about (hence why I made this thread), it's not fun for me to just have to reply with "that's not what I said" every time you post either, but I think I'll get over it.
i did make valid points, imo

and the only thing you said you "didn't say" which i accused you of saying, you actually did say but in slightly different words

"boys are taught to value girls less as people" in the context of a story where a girl was murdered by a boy = girl's life was valued less. you're just playing word games by pretending this wasn't implicit in your post.

I made like 20 posts in this thread, surely you can find more relevant material, you Lenny Bruce, you.

Also, I explained to you how you were completely wrong about equating the value of life to the value of someone as a person.

you didn't explain it so much as you stated it without any explanation.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Reality.
If you can't prove your point, don't make it.

Fact is that you have no objective evidence to conclude that sexism in any way played a part in this killing (you could argue gender roles might have more strongly, simply because aggressive behavior is indeed more encouraged in boys, but it would still be a weak argument). All you have is speculation.

No one has to take your speculation seriously, nor should they.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think I and others have pointed out how men are in other ways more likely to be killed (suicide, gang related crimes, as soldiers (although that's a more complicated topic)). One can completely value someone as an object and not as a person and it can be beneficial to their life expectancy.

A good example of this is the recent Mad Max, btw. The women were definitely thought of as objects and property, but being highly priced in that way made their lives be more valuable than those of the men...

just saw this...

see, this is basically what i mean by you will just rationalize any results whatsoever to fit your feminist narrative. if women aren't offered protection, we value them less as people. if they are offered protection, it's cause we value their "lives" merely because we value them as "objects."

you will basically twist any outcome to fit the feminist paradigm. this starts to come across as dogma, to me.

see, my "reality" growing up has been one where bullying was everywhere, and was a simple fact of life like a lion hunting down a gazelle. it transcended sex or gender, though women of course are the weaker sex and are thus easier victims... but they were by no means the predominant victims. and more often than not, a female was bullied by another (stronger) female rather than by a male.

on the other hand... if an unruly woman is attacking you physically, you were supposed to just man up and take it... at the most resorting to restraining her... but never actually fighting back with the same ferocity with which she is attacking you... because "a man doesn't lay his hands on a woman..."

yet i'm sure to you this is just another example of us valuing them as objects and not as people..

so what is the non-sexist, non-misogynist answer? do i respond with a mortal kombat style uppercut, like the bus driver from cleveland? or do i play the chivalrous role and refuse to hit a woman even if she is hitting me?

Originally posted by NemeBro
If you can't prove your point, don't make it.

Fact is that you have no objective evidence to conclude that sexism in any way played a part in this killing (you could argue gender roles might have more strongly, simply because aggressive behavior is indeed more encouraged in boys, but it would still be a weak argument). All you have is speculation.

No one has to take your speculation seriously, nor should they.

Sure, you can have a different opinion to me, I think I have given good reasons for why I think it fits, but your mileage may vary.

So, what about on topic, what solutions do you think could be implemented to prevent things like this?

Originally posted by Bardock42
This is just not a true representation of my point. I never said that female lives are valued less.

What I am saying is that the type of bullying as described in the story is often excused or even condoned when done by boys to girl.

If the victim in this case had been male, many of the reasons I gave earlier would still apply, however the condoning of disrespectful male behaviour when it comes to girl would not apply.

I honestly don't know where you are getting some of this. Boys bullying girls is not condoned in this country. In fact it is the opposite. We are taught, and have this fact hammered home, that a boy should not hit a girl no matter what. Some people take it to ridiculous heights: even if a girl hits you..you can't hit her back because reasons.

There are misogynistic things in this country, but we don't really teach that violence against women is okay. For me the misogyny you see here has less to do with violence against women and more to do with the preconceived notion that women should be fulfilling certain "roles" and not stepping out of those boundaries.

Originally posted by Surtur
I honestly don't know where you are getting some of this. Boys bullying girls is not condoned in this country. In fact it is the opposite. We are taught, and have this fact hammered home, that a boy should not hit a girl no matter what. Some people take it to ridiculous heights: even if a girl hits you..you can't hit her back because reasons.

There are misogynistic things in this country, but we don't really teach that violence against women is okay. For me the misogyny you see here has less to do with violence against women and more to do with the preconceived notion that women should be fulfilling certain "roles" and not stepping out of those boundaries.

I actually agree with your conclusion completely. That is what I meant with the misogynist aspect of the story, it seems obvious that I either didn't communicate it well or that reactions to the term are particularly strong.

Whats most important to take from this topic is that institutionalized mysoginy is bad, and bardock considers himself a feminist. ...Oh and something about children with guns.

Couldn't another way to look at be that B42 forced the misogynist (aka guys with mommy issues) in here to look their mommy issues straight in the eye and they all blinked? Way off?

Originally posted by Robtard
Couldn't another way to look at be that B42 forced the misogynist (aka guys with mommy issues) in here to look their mommy issues straight in the eye and they all blinked? Way off?

Yeah, way off.

Originally posted by Robtard
Couldn't another way to look at be that B42 forced the misogynist (aka guys with mommy issues) in here to look their mommy issues straight in the eye and they all blinked? Way off?
yea, and another way to look at 9/11 is that the reptilian illuminati launched a false flag attack consisting of hologram planes and controlled thermite-based demolition explosions.