Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Exactly what I said. Not that being comparable to them is somehow an insult.
Yes. Luke between ESB and ROTJ is most certainly a powerhouse in the great scheme of things.
No, I mean YouTube video
But it's cool how you completely ignore that both Maul and Savage were at a disadvantage because of tight spaces.
Oh, yes. Kenobi is clearly going all out on Savage together with Anakin, instead of just fighting defensively. We know what happened, when Kenobi does go all out on Savage and Maul. In case you need a reminder: He cuts Savage's arm off.
She totally destroyed him or she defeated him after fighting for over a minute and a half, which incase you didn't know, is a long time.
She does so without using the Force, when she could probably have choked him out or pushed him around to k.o. him in seconds. And their actual "fight" lasts about 40 seconds, which isn't that long, incase you didn't know.
Is that him easily destroying Mandalorian glass, because the "iron" seems to be pretty much undamaged. 😉
Also completely supported.
You mean like your idea that Savage is more powerful than Maul? Which just goes, well, against pretty much everything we saw on screen?
O'm sure you seen Savage's respect thread. Also, yeah, both of those things are extremely impressive.
I don't read "respect threads" since they are just pointless collections of random feats, usually without one ounce of reasoning or thinking presented within. I've better things to do with my time. That being said, since you're prone to exeggerating Savage's feat, the best he has done with TK is pushing a group of soldiers around, which doesn't translate into "an army".
And it would be impressive, if one of them had offered some kind of defense against the TK attack, which just didn't happen.
On Felucia, not to mention with Kun. Fighting off Ventress and Dooku simultaneous, as well as Anakin and Obi-Wan is extremely impressive. But, as per the usual, we ignore that because it isn't given TOR levels of hype.
Nope. We don't ignore it, because the "hype" is missing. We just judge it differently because you are ignoring context.
First: Felucia? Kun? Either I did miss something in SW canon or merely the drugs you're taking. The most impressive kill of Savage - to my knowledge - is Adi Gallia. And I'm already stretching the word "impressive" there, since she has pretty much nothing to offer next to her position as Jedi Council Member.
He attacks Dooku and Ventress when both of them aren't really expecting it and does nothing but putting them on their asses with brute strenghts for two seconds before the retaliation sends him flying through the room. And this while Ventress and Dooku were on different sides already. Had they teamed up, they would have destroyed Savage, given that Dooku alone could easily dominate him in combat while fending Ventress off at the same time.
Likewise we already know that Kenobi alone is more than a match for Savage, given that he can literally disarm him, while having to defend himself against Maul at the same time. That you have to excuse that by stating the two brothers did suffer from a disadvantage because of limited space is pretty much laughable.
So, I'm very sorry, but Savage in his regular shape is below Kenobi and he simply lacks when it comes to actual lightsaber skill or force mastery. He is just a brute that can some stuff that seems impressive - when he is angry (aka boosted by the Dark Side) on every given sunday.
It's the same Darth Angral that got shot at by Baras in one panel and then they both stopped fighting. Super impressive, especially considering the numerous time a pre-amped Baras claimed he was almost destroyed.
I wonder how they managed to get that "Darth" title, considering they just seem to be some random nobodies not worth anybodies attention. 🙄 And yes: Baras "claims" to have been "almost destroyed" (read: defeated in combat) by some Jedi at least 10 years prior to the events depicted in SW:ToR. I bet he just remained in that particular shape he had back then, not gaining knowledge or power. God forbid.
Originally posted by FreshestSliceHighly doubt it. Savage is not a Kenobi level duelist bro.
So basically dodging the point? Could it be that Savage might have actually improved during that time?
Uh, no, no she didn't; her winning doesn't mean Savage didn't fight evenly. 😬 And again, this is clearly before Savage was amped.She didn't just win, she kicked his ass lol
As for Savage being more powerful than Maul, that's something Dooku says. Whether you think Savage actually reached that level is more a matter of opinion, but given the fact Savage has plenty of feats to back up the claim, where as Maul has inferior showings in the Force all around, I'm going to go with yes.If it was true, Savage wouldn't bow to his brother. It is clear that he wants to be equals with him.
Originally posted by FreshestSliceHe does, but Scourge cut the fight before either side got the upper hand. I don't think its reaching to call it a stalemate. In fact, I see this as something to wank HoT, not Scourge. Nai's explanation on how impressive Scourge is pretty accurate and HoT almost defeating him in such an early age is rather impressive.
Assuming that the HoT grows nil from Quesh on, which isn't true by the way,
And that sounds like a bunch of assumptions, with zero evidence to back them up.What? Do you need me to show you evidence on this? Scourge's entire life was spent on waiting for the face he saw in the vision and he had to make it look like he lost so Vitiate doesn't get annoyed. This would be clear to a 5 years old child dude.
What is there that Savage can't actually do. I don't need you to link me Neph's respect thread. I've played the Knight's story enough times, thanks.Stalemating Scourge 🤣
Originally posted by SunRazer
Where did I ever compare that version of Scourge to the game one? And no, he wasn't particularly impressive in the novel.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Where's the part that says the Emperor amped him anyway?
Originally posted by SunRazer
In the end, it's down to feats, where Nyriss is just Scourge's superior. 300 years of training and experience doesn't change that. Killing numerous unknowns doesn't change that either. Show me what implies SWTOR Scourge is capable of doing what Nyriss did to novel Scourge and Surik at same time. Because he wasn't able to beat the HoT, who, as of Act II, I frankly don't see doing what Nyriss did.
Feats are certainly important and make it easier for the reader to evaluate a character's ability in different situations. However, additional details are equally important to gauge a character's ability such as accomplishments and reputation.
Q: How do we know that Revan became the most powerful Jedi of the Order?
A: His reputation.
Lord Scourge transitioned into the Emperor's Wrath; a position reserved for the greatest warrior of the Empire. A position which is extremely demanding in all aspects. Experience gained from this position would be invaluable and helped Lord Scourge in developing new abilities and he had ample time to hone all of his abilities to perfection. Characters grow and change with passage of time. Lord Scourge emerged as one of the most powerful Sith in the history of the Empire. This logically implies that he is among the best in galactic history as well; his sheer kill-count lends credibility to his reputation.
Originally posted by SunRazer
And none of this shows that Scourge would fodderize Savage, either.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Reputation potentially spread by the Emperor or reputation based on him killing select powerful beings in unidentified (and thus potentially clandestine) ways. So it's not baseless reputation, but hardly beyond Savage either.
Emperor's backing may have discouraged some from challenging the Emperor's Wrath but many did and guess what? They died. Sith tend to be ambitious and as they grow in power, their boldness increases accordingly. The Emperor's Wrath have killed 1000 Sith; this is a huge number.
The Emperor's Wrath is a heavy-weight champion, not a Sith Assassin who would attack an opponent using clandestine tactics. His primary stats are strength and endurance. He uses heavy armor and a shield generator for protection.
Originally posted by SunRazer
As far as objective sources go, I believe it was only stated that the Dark Council was wary of Scourge, which is kind of the same as considering him a threat. Only Sajar outright states the Council was afraid of him, IIRC. And as NewGuy said, the likes of Marr and Jadus seem to be stronger than him and are unlikely to be afraid of him. I'd also expect a number of Nyriss-tier individuals over the years, and whilst Scourge would've grown over the years, I doubt it's by enough of a margin to compensate for the clear disparity shown between him and Nyriss in the novel.
Originally posted by SunRazer
And I know I'll catch flak for this from the TORists, but frankly, Savage is just better than most Dark Councillors anyway.
Expecting a Sith-trainee to be a match for Dark Council members is far-fetched and incredibly stupid assumption.
Originally posted by ILS
Savage was a Sith Lord, lel. Or at the very least better than a trainee.And even if he was a trainee, who gives a shit? That just means a trainee in the PT era is nigh-top tier in SWTOR. Boohoo, dry your tears.
Apparently, one doesn't need arguments, logic or reason when one has an opinion! 👆
Originally posted by ILS
Seeing as I quite literally don't have the time to trade thousands of words over this shit anymore, I'm not too hurt over your observation that I posted my opinion. You get good-boy points for being able to read though.
Seeing that you quite literally have the time to make some comments that are entirely irrelevant to the discussion, because of a lack of arguments, one must wonder why you have chosen to hit the reply button at all. To get +1 on the post counter? Just asking. I'm really interested why people post "opinions" on forums (that are usually there to debate, which means "exchange arguments", you know), when they could run a blog instead or update their Facebook status. Seriously. "Savage > Scourge" without any reasoning is also short enough for Twitter. There are so many places on the internet where people can ignore your opinion. Why do you need them to do it here?
😉
And Scourge still destroys Savage with ease. Not even a contest. 🙂