Cap Vs Cap Vs Cap Vs Cap

Originally posted by Newjak
He was never shot in the car scene. He held his side after falling off the car after it rolled. It's actually a poor durability feat considering what he tanks in the other movies. He was running incredibly fast but most of the chase takes place in traffic so the car can not go it's full speed. Like I said it is a good feat for Cap but I wouldn't say it is his best speed feat. Not better then continuously lapping Falcon at the sprinting speed he was going.

I said Ultron was close to Tony. Enough to give the upgraded Tony a fight that he couldn't take lightly. It was a good power gauge for what Ultron could do.

As to me using TFA Cap a lot. I'm mentioning him a lot because he is the baseline Cap in series. Every movie that comes from that is a progression of that Cap.

And if all you trying to say is that all Cap's from all movies are the same. I agree they are. If all you are trying to say is that they are the same character from the same universe and that their powers haven't canonically been amped in story I also agree.

That is not what I am talking about though or what I thought this thread was about. I thought you were asking how each movie versions single feats compare to others and if there has been feat progressions in the movies, which there has been.

Like I've said multiple times I do not think Cap power's are getting stronger in terms of him being amped from movie to movie. At least in story they are the same person. Still you can not ignore that there is some power creep going on as Cap continuously gets better power feats as the movies go on.

For instance yes Cap skill's have improved during the movies but if you asked me if TFA Cap with increased skill level could physically go toe to toe with Ultron in AoU. and I could only use TFA Cap power feats in the debate I would say he would get stomped even with a skill increase.

So let me try to simplify my response a bit. If you are just arguing that they are the same character yes they are. They should all have the same physical abilities as they are all the same character. But if you want to ask me if Cap has seen power creep as the movies have gone on I think there is a progression that has been made throughout the movies.

For instance if you created a scenario where AoU Cap fights TFA Cap and they can only use feats from their respective movies. I would AoU the win not just in skill but in the physical categories as well. I do admit TWS and AoU Cap are closer in feats but they both still would beat TFA Cap if they were limited to only using feats in the movie they appear in.

I'm hoping that makes the distinction of what I am saying vs what you are saying more clear?

He does though. After the car crash he picks up the one door to block the shots from the gunman. First one gets stopped, but you hear a grunt after the second one, and later see the red spot on his side, about 7 inches or so under his arm. Also, he himself was running in between traffic and often had to take avoiding actions against other vehicles. So he was also hampered by the terrain.

I know there is a feat progression. I have said as much myself. My argument has been that the feat progression isn't due to power amps, but due to Cap gaining a better control of his powerset and refining/expanding his skills. For example, Cap can have superhuman strength and agility, but without the gymnastic/acrobatic skills required there is no way in hell he could do all those flips etc. he did during TWS quinjet scene. He would probably misjudge the first jump and go face first into a propeller or something.

Guess it will come down to personal interpretation of his powers and feats. As seen, some of us believe that it is purely a case of skill expansion, and the actual canonical explanation to the SS serum also supports this. But other people interpret the feat increase as being attributed to more than skill amps.

But for me (and others), based on what I know of Cap's powerset and how we know his effectiveness and skill has improved, it is a case of simply learning more of Cap's limits with each film, as he gets more feats, as opposed to him actually being amped physically. For example, if he is strong enough to do the car hold in AoU, based on the fact that the SS serum maintains his peak levels at all times since the very beginning, he should have had the same level of strength in the TFA. I mean the SS serum pushed him to the peak a human can achieve, so how could he physically become stronger than what is possible to become? At least that is my take on it.

And I personally have to disagree about that version of Ultron being close to Tony. He managed to get a lot of hits in but none of them did any kind of real damage to Tony, where as Tony only needed to hit Ultron with a few attacks to turn him into scrap. As mentioned in another thread, Tony was still in good enough shape to fly off to the city, hop inside Veronica while wearing that same armour, and fight the Hulk.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
So still lying about what claims I made where? I specifically said I made no claims in the one thread. Then you try to call me a liar by quoting a different thread and acting like it is the same. And even then, I made no claims about your hypothetical scenario in any of the posts you quoted. I addressed Cap Vs Marv specifically each time, and the context of that specific OP. Keep trolling and trying to derail this thread with your lies and I will report you for it.

BWAHAHA... Backed into a corner and the desperation becomes apparent. Not once, DID I say you commented in that specific thread about the topic at hand. Point me to where I said you did. What I said is, YOU COMMENTED on the discussion in the other thread and gave your opinion. Who gives a flying fu*8 if you didn't comment on it in that specific thread. YOU commented on it in another thread. My argument has never been that you commented on it in the specific. My stance has ONLY ever been that you DID in fact comment on it (no matter the thread) on TWO separate occasions. When you claimed you never did. Just because you never did in that thread.. So? That's like a judge going... So did you give you opinion on the accident to Laura in your letter of august 12? No, I commented to Laura and gave my opinion on August 16th. Do you think he would go... oh okay, well then I don't care about your opinion then. No, he'd still care the opinion you expressed, not the date. Same thing here, who cares which thread you posted it in. You said you didn't have an opinion on the matter... when in fact you DID state your opinion on the matter (Which as usual turned out to be wrong) LOL

No, I said I did not comment on it in your Cap Vs Ozy and Bucky thread specifically, which I did not. So if you are not talking about a specific thread, then why quote me talking about a specific thread? Oh right, you don't read my posts properly. And again, not once did I say anything about TFA Cap vs Ozy against Cap vs Ozy in the posts you quoted. I addressed the OP date and the poster situation of the Cap vs Marv thread specifically. So good job, you have just been reported for blatantly lying and trying to derail this thread.

And when Imp made his ruling on the specific thread I had been talking about, those of us who disagreed dropped it and didn't carry on it that thread other than mostly pointing out TFA Cap alone still wins. Because, while our opinions on the thread might differ, we respect his decision as the mod and final authority.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Love that Whedon is done and the Russo bros. have the reigns for a while.

👆

Yes, I'm very pleased about that, too. Whedon is overrated.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
👆

Yes, I'm very pleased about that, too. Whedon is overrated.

I feel he was tired of it by the end. AoU lacked the same kind of spark the first Avengers movie had.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
No, I said I did not comment on it in your Cap Vs Ozy and Bucky thread specifically, which I did not. So if you are not talking about a specific thread, then why quote me talking about a specific thread? Oh right, you don't read my posts properly. And again, not once did I say anything about TFA Cap vs Ozy against Cap vs Ozy in the posts you quoted. I addressed the OP date and the poster situation of the Cap vs Marv thread specifically. So good job, you have just been reported for blatantly lying and trying to derail this thread.

And when Imp made his ruling on the specific thread I had been talking about, those of us who disagreed dropped it and didn't carry on it that thread other than mostly pointing out TFA Cap alone still wins. Because, while our opinions on the thread might differ, we respect his decision as the mod and final authority.

Thanks for CONFIRMING as we already knew that you indeed DID comment on the discussion at hand. My analogy of FA Cap vs. Ozy and Cap vs. Ozy WAS SPECIFICALLY used in the discussion about Cap vs. Marv. That is EXACTLY why I was proposing that analogy and if they were the same. In continuance of the discussion in the FA Cap vs. Marv. thread. As we knew before, you did indeed comment and give your opinion on the matter. I could care less which thread you posted it in. Thanks for clarifying you were wrong, like usual.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This is totally and completely false and tells me what I already know. Both you and vault have no idea about things such as leverage, form and knowledge. EACH one of those things can allow Cap to list more than his other versions could lift. Having such knowledge of things to a higher degree and knows your abilities to a higher degree means in some circumstances where applicable, you would lift more than you could before. To even not see that as a distinct and real possibility, tells me all I need to know about your athletic and combat sport experience.

Ok. So couple of questions for you:

1. How exactly does one version of Cap differ from the others in terms of leverage?

2. Did any of the Caps ever display some form of training or experience with bench pressing?

3. How exactly does form or leverage increase one's durability?

The OP has some very specific set of contests. This is not just a fight. I kinda get what you're trying to say as I do a lot of gym work, but none of the Cap versions are powerlifters or bodybuilders meaning they have no specific training for that. All of Cap's feats in the movies does not show him gaining some kind of training or experience in bench pressing, 100 m dashes or pure durability.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok. So couple of questions for you:

1. How exactly does one version of Cap differ from the others in terms of leverage?

2. Did any of the Caps ever display some form of training or experience with bench pressing?

3. How exactly does form or leverage increase one's durability?

The OP has some very specific set of contests. This is not just a fight. I kinda get what you're trying to say as I do a lot of gym work, but none of the Cap versions are powerlifters or bodybuilders meaning they have no specific training for that. All of Cap's feats in the movies does not show him gaining some kind of training or experience in bench pressing, 100 m dashes or pure durability.

I mentioned numerous things... Leverage... Knowledge.. Form... Experience. If you can't figure out how those things would help you Bench Press more or perform strength feats better/easier.. then I don't know what to tell you. Just know, they simply would in some situations. I used a perfect example which you seem to have missed. If you watch the last Arm Wrestling Worlds.. The guy who won, is the biggest guy nor the strongest guy. He would bench the most or curl the most or anything. But he makes up for this with his reflexes and form. This are things that aren't static and can be increased. Even you look at the reigning left-hander.. it's much the same.

I never commented on Durability at all. Though skin toughness can be increased. Same with being able to tank punches. If you'd boxed, you'd know that experience and training can help you take a punch better. So while I didn't comment on it directly, Cap could also increase his skill in this area and thus be able to take more punishment.

I'm sorry, but not seeing how these things could help Cap perform better feats as he gained more knowledge and experience is kind of beyond me. But whatever.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I mentioned numerous things... Leverage... Knowledge.. Form... Experience. If you can't figure out how those things would help you Bench Press more or perform strength feats better/easier.. then I don't know what to tell you. Just know, they simply would in some situations. I used a perfect example which you seem to have missed. If you watch the last Arm Wrestling Worlds.. The guy who won, is the biggest guy nor the strongest guy. He would bench the most or curl the most or anything. But he makes up for this with his reflexes and form. This are things that aren't static and can be increased. Even you look at the reigning left-hander.. it's much the same.

I never commented on Durability at all. Though skin toughness can be increased. Same with being able to tank punches. If you'd boxed, you'd know that experience and training can help you take a punch better. So while I didn't comment on it directly, Cap could also increase his skill in this area and thus be able to take more punishment.

I'm sorry, but not seeing how these things could help Cap perform better feats as he gained more knowledge and experience is kind of beyond me. But whatever.

Actually, I do understand what you're saying. Yes, technique and experience do help you bench press. My question to you is, what kind of experience or training has Cap had that would actually help him bench press? He doesn't exactly train for it, so I'm curious to see which of his feats you think would help him bench press more compared to his other versions.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
He does though. After the car crash he picks up the one door to block the shots from the gunman. First one gets stopped, but you hear a grunt after the second one, and later see the red spot on his side, about 7 inches or so under his arm. Also, he himself was running in between traffic and often had to take avoiding actions against other vehicles. So he was also hampered by the terrain.

I know there is a feat progression. I have said as much myself. My argument has been that the feat progression isn't due to power amps, but due to Cap gaining a better control of his powerset and refining/expanding his skills. For example, Cap can have superhuman strength and agility, but without the gymnastic/acrobatic skills required there is no way in hell he could do all those flips etc. he did during TWS quinjet scene. He would probably misjudge the first jump and go face first into a propeller or something.

Guess it will come down to personal interpretation of his powers and feats. As seen, some of us believe that it is purely a case of skill expansion, and the actual canonical explanation to the SS serum also supports this. But other people interpret the feat increase as being attributed to more than skill amps.

But for me (and others), based on what I know of Cap's powerset and how we know his effectiveness and skill has improved, it is a case of simply learning more of Cap's limits with each film, as he gets more feats, as opposed to him actually being amped physically. For example, if he is strong enough to do the car hold in AoU, based on the fact that the SS serum maintains his peak levels at all times since the very beginning, he should have had the same level of strength in the TFA. I mean the SS serum pushed him to the peak a human can achieve, so how could he physically become stronger than what is possible to become? At least that is my take on it.

And I personally have to disagree about that version of Ultron being close to Tony. He managed to get a lot of hits in but none of them did any kind of real damage to Tony, where as Tony only needed to hit Ultron with a few attacks to turn him into scrap. As mentioned in another thread, Tony was still in good enough shape to fly off to the city, hop inside Veronica while wearing that same armour, and fight the Hulk.

I think you are once again turning this into a my interpretation vs your interpretation. I'm not trying to pick a side here.

I'm not trying to say you are wrong. In fact you are correct. If AoU Cap was able to physically do something than it only stands to reason that TFA Cap could physically perform the same feat. After all they are the same character.

But that is hindsight. What other people are talking about is something different. For this exercise picture that TFA is the only Captain America movie out. Now picture AoU Cap is someone completely different. A different character name, person, and background. If you asked me could TFA Cap perform those same feats, not just skill feats but power feats as well, I would have a hard time putting together a compelling argument that TFA Cap would have been able to do that. Even if you think Ultron wasn't as close to Tony in power as I think Ultron still has some great power feats. Feats that would easily have put him above anyone from TFA.

Now because they are the same character you and I understand that the feats performed by Cap in all the films are within his reasonable limits because they are the same character. Yes there is skill increase as well but we are talking pure power feats.

But what other people and I are also talking about is from a meta perspective not an in story perspective. TFA Cap and AoU from meta perspective are not the same characters in terms of skills and power feats. As you yourself have mentioned their has been power progression in the movies. You chose to create a logical connection in lore to account for that. They are the same character so the increase is simply from him testing his limits and getting more skilled. Which is a fine logical conclusion to make. It works because Cap in all movies is the exact same character.

From a meta perspective they clearly aren't though. By meta I mean looking at it from a strictly character progression standpoint from an out of story look.

So the question you've posed in this thread can be taken in one of two ways. Do you want to argue them as the same person and allowing them all access to all feats. Or are you trying to have a meta conversation about how different Cap's abilities are between each film and the progression that has taken place.

For the first in their physical abilities they are the exact same.

For the meta discussion I would put AoU Cap on top while TFA Cap is clearly at the bottom.

It really just depends on how you want to discuss this

Originally posted by FrothByte
My question to you is, what kind of experience or training has Cap had that would actually help him bench press? He doesn't exactly train for it,

We've seen him training, it's unfortunate you need Whedon or Russos to show you a blow by blow workout routine. What ive taken from the movies, is the exact implication that he keeps his body very active through out. Including a Full work out, not just hitting a bag and running. Don't make me 'Duh'.

If we're going by JUST the movies, we have already seen a clear progression across ALL levels of his physicality.

Originally posted by Juk3n
We've seen him training, it's unfortunate you need Whedon or Russos to show you a blow by blow workout routine. What ive taken from the movies, is the exact implication that he keeps his body very active through out. Including a Full work out, not just hitting a bag and running. Don't make me 'Duh'.

If we're going by JUST the movies, we have already seen a clear progression across ALL levels of his physicality.

Cap is a fighter, not a powerlifter. It makes sense that Cap would focus his training on fighting, not on perfecting his bench pressing skills or his clean and jerk technique. All of the training scenes and feats that Cap have on screen support this. After all, if you were already at the peak of your strength and physical stats, would you bother bench pressing or would you rather train on more applicable skill sets?

So my question to KT still stands (and you can go ahead and try to answer it if you want): What makes you think latter versions of Cap have more experience or skill in bench pressing than previous versions of Cap?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Cap is a fighter, not a powerlifter. It makes sense that Cap would focus his training on fighting, not on perfecting his bench pressing skills or his clean and jerk technique. All of the training scenes and feats that Cap have on screen support this. After all, if you were already at the peak of your strength and physical stats, would you bother bench pressing or would you rather train on more applicable skill sets?

So my question to KT still stands (and you can go ahead and try to answer it if you want): What makes you think latter versions of Cap have more experience or skill in bench pressing than previous versions of Cap?

Your moving the goalposts now...

Your original premise was.. that they are exactly the same and he's still the same Cap gifted with the same Serum. That was your original stance. Now, after I've pointed out that he could indeed increase his bench press and become stronger in that area... you go... Oh yeah I agree, but show me where he's done that? LMAO. Sorry bud, doesn't work that way. You'd have to prove he hasn't, I don't need to prove a negative on what wasn't shown. That'd be like you asking me to prove Cap can take a piss, cause ya know, it was never shown to take a piss. Not my cup of tea.

The reality is this, Cap is constantly trying to improve himself through training, that's what he does. He didn't just get the serum and stay static from there on out. No he's constantly training trying to improve himself. We know this. Regardless, you all but conceited training and knowledge can improve his lifting feats.. not just bench press but all strength feats come down to technique/form, training/experience and of course strength. So again, you've now moved the goalposts from your original stance which is enough for me.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Your moving the goalposts now...

Your original premise was.. that they are exactly the same and he's still the same Cap gifted with the same Serum. That was your original stance. Now, after I've pointed out that he could indeed increase his bench press and become stronger in that area... you go... Oh yeah I agree, but show me where he's done that? LMAO. Sorry bud, doesn't work that way. You'd have to prove he hasn't, I don't need to prove a negative on what wasn't shown. That'd be like you asking me to prove Cap can take a piss, cause ya know, it was never shown to take a piss. Not my cup of tea.

The reality is this, Cap is constantly trying to improve himself through training, that's what he does. He didn't just get the serum and stay static from there on out. No he's constantly training trying to improve himself. We know this. Regardless, you all but conceited training and knowledge can improve his lifting feats.. not just bench press but all strength feats come down to technique/form, training/experience and of course strength. So again, you've now moved the goalposts from your original stance which is enough for me.

I never said they were exactly the same. Show me my post where I said that? I said they had the EXACT SAME PHYSICAL STATS.

I then further went on to say that the only advantage that latter Caps have is skill and experience advantage.

This skill and experience advantage however doesn't translate to bench pressing, which is one of the contests being described here. Stop avoiding the question and and just answer it.

How exactly will one version of Cap have an advantage over another in terms of bench pressing?

I also never said Cap can get stronger in bench pressing. That ain't going to happen. I don't know what's wrong with you, why do you keep inventing and imagining what people say? I never said experience and training can improve his lifting feats (it would be nice if you actually read my posts before replying). What I said was it improves his fighting.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I never said they were exactly the same. Show me my post where I said that? I said they had the EXACT SAME PHYSICAL STATS.

I then further went on to say that the only advantage that latter Caps have is skill and experience advantage.

This skill and experience advantage however doesn't translate to bench pressing, which is one of the contests being described here. Stop avoiding the question and and just answer it.

How exactly will one version of Cap have an advantage over another in terms of bench pressing?

I also never said Cap can get stronger in bench pressing. That ain't going to happen. I don't know what's wrong with you, why do you keep inventing and imagining what people say? I never said experience and training can improve his lifting feats (it would be nice if you actually read my posts before replying). What I said was it improves his fighting.

Have you ever lifted before? I'm genuinely curious? If you don't think form and technique can be improved, thus improving what you can lift... then you should try it sometime. It absolutely can improve with technique and form improvement, which as you may or may not know, comes with experience and training. I'm unclear why you think the bench is unlike other feats of strength and requires no technique or form. It unquestionably does.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Have you ever lifted before? I'm genuinely curious? If you don't think form and technique can be improved, thus improving what you can lift... then you should try it sometime. It absolutely can improve with technique and form improvement, which as you may or may not know, comes with experience and training. I'm unclear why you think the bench is unlike other feats of strength and requires no technique or form. It unquestionably does.

Yes I've lifted, 10 yrs in fact till I got into a car accident. But that's neither here nor there. What I'm genuinely curious about is why you keep avoiding direct questions and why you seem to keep making up stuff that I supposedly said. And then derailing the conversation to focus on said make-believe accusations.

For instance, I never said that lifting can't be improved by technique and form. Please post a quote of me saying that. Unless you can find a direct quote of me saying that, then it's obvious that you're making stuff up.

Also, for once can you just answer a question without derailing it? I just want to know what feats Cap has shown which make you think he gained experience and technique relevant to bench pressing.

Are u being serious here? You literally... LITERALLY just said you don't feel can get stronger in the bench press after I thought you conceded that you could. NOW you say DUH of course you can improve how much you lift with form and technique. .. you literally just contradicted yourself in 3 posts back to back. SO WHICH IS IT... can you improve your bench press through form and technique? If you say yes, then explain your original posts of Cap is still Cap and thus would lift exactly the same. Obviously neglecting the obvious fact that Cap likely improved through various means of training.

Negative I'm not proving a negative. Prove Cap can take a piss?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Thanks for CONFIRMING as we already knew that you indeed DID comment on the discussion at hand. My analogy of FA Cap vs. Ozy and Cap vs. Ozy WAS SPECIFICALLY used in the discussion about Cap vs. Marv. That is EXACTLY why I was proposing that analogy and if they were the same. In continuance of the discussion in the FA Cap vs. Marv. thread. As we knew before, you did indeed comment and give your opinion on the matter. I could care less which thread you posted it in. Thanks for clarifying you were wrong, like usual.

LOL you literally tried to use a quote I made in reference to a specific thread to claim I was lying about posts I made in a different thread. That was the very thing you did when you started quoting me.

So wait? Because YOU were discussing something I never commented on, it means I commented on it? LOL By all means then, highlight exactly in those posts you quoted where I commented on your specific Cap vs Ozy scenario, and what my stance on your specific scenario was. You said I was talking about it in those two posts, so prove it.

I was always talking about the Cap vs Marc thread as a specific instance with unique circumstances (such as the old date and the missing OP), and why THAT SPECIFIC OP was vague and needed a mod ruling. So once again, I never commented on a separate hypothetical scenario you were making up as you were going along. So you are still trying to claim I was talking about your scenario when I was specifically talking about the actual thread at hand, which I made VERY clear across multiple posts.

I commented on your stupid scenario after I made the first post you quoted in your other thread, when I pointed out that the circumstances of Cap vs Marv had elements that were different to the one you were proposing with the Cap vs Ozy thing.

So AGAIN, reported for lying and trolling.

Originally posted by Newjak
I will have to rewatch the scene as I am pretty sure there was not any blood or a bullet wound. I could be wrong though.

I think you are once again turning this into a my interpretation vs your interpretation. I'm not trying to pick a side here.

I'm not trying to say you are wrong. In fact you are correct. If AoU Cap was able to physically do something than it only stands to reason that TFA Cap could physically perform the same feat. After all they are the same character.

But that is hindsight. What other people are talking about is something different. For this exercise picture that TFA is the only Captain America movie out. Now picture AoU Cap is someone completely different. A different character name, person, and background. If you asked me could TFA Cap perform those same feats, not just skill feats but power feats as well, I would have a hard time putting together a compelling argument that TFA Cap would have been able to do that. Even if you think Ultron wasn't as close to Tony in power as I think Ultron still has some great power feats. Feats that would easily have put him above anyone from TFA.

Now because they are the same character you and I understand that the feats performed by Cap in all the films are within his reasonable limits because they are the same character. Yes there is skill increase as well but we are talking pure power feats.

But what other people and I are also talking about is from a meta perspective not an in story perspective. TFA Cap and AoU from meta perspective are not the same characters in terms of skills and power feats. As you yourself have mentioned their has been power progression in the movies. You chose to create a logical connection in lore to account for that. They are the same character so the increase is simply from him testing his limits and getting more skilled. Which is a fine logical conclusion to make. It works because Cap in all movies is the exact same character.

From a meta perspective they clearly aren't though. By meta I mean looking at it from a strictly character progression standpoint from an out of story look.

So the question you've posed in this thread can be taken in one of two ways. Do you want to argue them as the same person and allowing them all access to all feats. Or are you trying to have a meta conversation about how different Cap's abilities are between each film and the progression that has taken place.

For the first in their physical abilities they are the exact same.

For the meta discussion I would put AoU Cap on top while TFA Cap is clearly at the bottom.

It really just depends on how you want to discuss this

I rewatched the scene to double check. He picks up the door and blocks the first shot to his right side successfully. With the second shot to the left, you here an "ahh" from Cap right after impact, and after he drops the door to pursue the guy a few seconds later he has the bullet hole in his left side. So based on that, the 2nd bullet went through the door and into his side.

I think you and I are actually agreeing here, but talking past each other. Because your first summary is what I have been saying as well. From a pure athletic point of view, based on what we know of the SS serum etc, his pure physical levels shouldn't randomly fluctuate and should keep him at a constant peak level. But, because he has clearly increased in his mastery and skill of not only his capabilities, but also expanded his knowledge of martial arts, acrobatics etc. he has become significantly more formidable as a result.

But, as I also pointed out, it comes down to if you view the feats within the context of each individual film in comparison to viewing it as just a long extension of the same character getting better with time. My point was actually though to gauge whether there was ground to say he has actually increased in terms of pure strength, speed, durability etc, hence the 3 matches I created in the OP. But thank you, I have actually gotten a good answer to my question through my discussion with you. It seems like there is no 100% perfect answer here. Based on the actual plot and powerset, his stats should be consistent throughout, but there is enough of difference between his feats in TFA and AoU that there is some ambiguity there.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes I've lifted, 10 yrs in fact till I got into a car accident. But that's neither here nor there. What I'm genuinely curious about is why you keep avoiding direct questions and why you seem to keep making up stuff that I supposedly said. And then derailing the conversation to focus on said make-believe accusations.

Just look at his posts directed at me. He clearly reads what he wants to read instead of what people actually post. I am not sure if it is just poor comprehension skills or legit troll tactics because he can't answer questions. But this is now another instance of him accusing another poster of saying things they didn't.