Cap Vs Cap Vs Cap Vs Cap

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Are u being serious here? You literally... LITERALLY just said you don't feel can get stronger in the bench press after I thought you conceded that you could. NOW you say DUH of course you can improve how much you lift with form and technique. .. you literally just contradicted yourself in 3 posts back to back. SO WHICH IS IT... can you improve your bench press through form and technique? If you say yes, then explain your original posts of Cap is still Cap and thus would lift exactly the same. Obviously neglecting the obvious fact that Cap likely improved through various means of training.

Negative I'm not proving a negative. Prove Cap can take a piss?

Do you even understand what you're saying? Improving technique is different from getting stronger. Cap can possibly lift more with better technique but that doesn't mean he's getting stronger. Problem here is, you have no proof that latter versions of Cap had better bench pressing techniques than previous versions.

I'm not asking you to prove a negative, I'm asking you to provide proof that Cap's bench pressing skills actually improved. That's like if I claimed Cap can fly, I'd obviously need to prove it. You're claiming Cap has a certain ability, you need to prove it. Unless of course you have no proof, which would explain why you keep dodging.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Do you even understand what you're saying? Improving technique is different from getting stronger. Cap can possibly lift more with better technique but that doesn't mean he's getting stronger. Problem here is, you have no proof that latter versions of Cap had better bench pressing techniques than previous versions.

I'm not asking you to prove a negative, I'm asking you to provide proof that Cap's bench pressing skills actually improved. That's like if I claimed Cap can fly, I'd obviously need to prove it. You're claiming Cap has a certain ability, you need to prove it. Unless of course you have no proof, which would explain why you keep dodging.

You keep contradicting yourself in post after post. First you concede you can indeed lift more with improved technique. Then you say, no you can't actually, then you go, duh of course you can. The reality is this, your first post clearly implies there is no way a later Cap can lift more because they are exactly the same. This is faulty logic and unsound, Cap can indeed lift more with improved technique and form. A factor you failed to account for.

I told you, I don't need to prove a negative. I already gave an example of how that works. Prove Cap can take a piss. The facts are these... Cap is constantly training and trying to improve himself. If you don't think he'd educate himself on leverage and technique to improve what he could lift... then.. I don't know what to tell you. I believe he's constantly trying to improve himself.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You keep contradicting yourself in post after post. First you concede you can indeed lift more with improved technique. Then you say, no you can't actually, then you go, duh of course you can. The reality is this, your first post clearly implies there is no way a later Cap can lift more because they are exactly the same. This is faulty logic and unsound, Cap can indeed lift more with improved technique and form. A factor you failed to account for.

I told you, I don't need to prove a negative. I already gave an example of how that works. Prove Cap can take a piss. The facts are these... Cap is constantly training and trying to improve himself. If you don't think he'd educate himself on leverage and technique to improve what he could lift... then.. I don't know what to tell you. I believe he's constantly trying to improve himself.

As I said previously, either you post a direct quote of what I said or you're nothing but a big, fat liar.

I'm asking you to prove that Cap's bench press skills are being improved, which you have mentioned zero proof of. That's not asking you to prove a negative. You claimed his training and experience will help him improve bench pressing, you need to prove it.

Are you saying Cap can't get stronger or faster?

Originally posted by juggerman
Are you saying Cap can't get stronger or faster?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. He can possibly be able to lift more or achieve greater speeds with proper training and better technique (KT has convinced me of that much at least) but it won't be due to him actually becoming stronger or faster physically. Why? Because he's already at his peak physical capacity.

Unfortunately due to the stipulations of the OP which had very specific contests listed, I don't see how one version of Cap is any better than the other version in terms of bench pressing or even the 100m dash.

Given the thread I agree he should tie himself in each round

But I think he should be able to get stronger if he trained to become so. I don't think his muscles would just not grow if he lifted. But that's just an opinion

Originally posted by juggerman
Given the thread I agree he should tie himself in each round

But I think he should be able to get stronger if he trained to become so. I don't think his muscles would just not grow if he lifted. But that's just an opinion

The SS serum is supposed to have pushed Cap's physique to it's maximum capacity. Maximum capacity... meaning he can not increase it anymore.

He can increase his skill and experience by training for it, but he can no longer increase his pure physical strength or stamina.

He can possibly increase his power in certain movements, for example punching power, if he trains for the technique. But that's simply improving technique and not really increasing strength.

Can he improve his bench press weight by improving technique? Possibly. But then he'd have to specifically train for bench press techniques which we have no proof of (and which would be a waste of his time considering he doesn't need it).

Not saying it didn't happen Frost, but do you happen to have a clip where it specifically mentions that he could never get stronger, that his physique is at his maximum capacity. Not saying this isn't true, just don't remember the scene in question which states that.

Further, we are pretty much in agreement now, well for the most part. I happen to think Cap has studied technique and leverage and just has more knowledge than he did at first. Thus, I personally think it's likely he could lift more with said knowledge. However, I concede that it's also possible that he wouldn't be able to life more if he hasn't studied things like I believe he did. So I think we're pretty close on our stance.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not saying it didn't happen Frost, but do you happen to have a clip where it specifically mentions that he could never get stronger, that his physique is at his maximum capacity. Not saying this isn't true, just don't remember the scene in question which states that.

Further, we are pretty much in agreement now, well for the most part. I happen to think Cap has studied technique and leverage and just has more knowledge than he did at first. Thus, I personally think it's likely he could lift more with said knowledge. However, I concede that it's also possible that he wouldn't be able to life more if he hasn't studied things like I believe he did. So I think we're pretty close on our stance.

It's somewhere in the first movie. I'm too lazy to try and find it but I'll see if I can find time.

As for improving in ability, my stance on it is this: Just because you learned how to box doesn't mean you learned how to kick. What I'm trying to say is, just because Cap trained to fight and got experience in fighting, that doesn't automatically translate to him being able to bench press with better technique.

it's one character. the most recent appearance wins. It's not like Cap suffered any injuries or power decreases from Winter Soldier to AOU.

This thread is stupid