War is waged against ISIS, mainly led by Muslim countries, who do not support ISIS or its acts either. The way to most strategically wage that war in order to not give rice to further radical Islamist groups (the way that the Iraq war has contributed in creating ISIS) is what the nations are currently consider.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Is what we doing now working, the bodies are piling up. You would sit idly by and let them continue?How man times does this have to happen!
And it worked with Japan and Germany.
The Japanese were lunatics, suicide bombers.
They are reformed now.
Both of those reformations were mostly involved in dismantling state political ideologies that, relatively speaking, weren't around all that long and as Ushgarak said, worked top down. In the case of Japan, America specifically did not persecute the Emperor for war crimes because the Japanese faith in the Emperor is so ingrained in their culture it would have caused the entire populace to retaliate.
Compare this to Islam, a religion that is the entire basis for Arabic society, and has been for over a thousand years. You can't reform it at the end of a gun, people are simply too stubborn to accept changing something that to them is a fundamental truth like that. Unless you just want to kill them all. Bombing and murdering people isn't going to change their beliefs, it's just going to piss them off and cause them to become even more radical.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
We're in nothing like the apocalypse you are proposing. Not a fraction of one percent of it.This will be won by ideology. It will be won first by moderate Islam rejecting extremism- which is, incidentally, how the forerunner of Islamic State was originally defeated in Iraq. Force didn't work. The people rejecting it did.
If there was a terrorist attack every where, instead of every two weeks, would you say we are in a terrorist apocalypse? What do you feel for all the familys and dead ones, have you thought about how they feel? Would they too be wrong for wanting revenge because these few cowards are dead now, but there are 10,000 more willing to step up in line.
What would it take and how many people dead would it take for you to admit we are at a tipping point? How many attacks?
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Both of those reformations were mostly involved in dismantling state political ideologies that, relatively speaking, weren't around all that long and as Ushgarak said, worked top down. In the case of Japan, America specifically did not persecute the Emperor for war crimes because the Japanese faith in the Emperor is so ingrained in their culture it would have caused the entire populace to retaliate.Compare this to Islam, a religion that is the entire basis for Arabic society, and has been for over a thousand years. You can't reform it at the end of a gun, people are simply too stubborn to accept changing something that to them is a fundamental truth like that. Unless you just want to kill them all. Bombing and murdering people isn't going to change their beliefs, it's just going to piss them off and cause them to become even more radical.
Ok, well look at Iran, they still want to wipe us out. We had them by the balls and now they got everything they asked for and more.
So if we can't bomb them and we cant sanction them, what can we do, twiddle our thumbs?
We need pre crime, like in Minority Report, that is the only way to solve this without a blood bath.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
If there was a terrorist attack every where, instead of every two weeks, would you say we are in a terrorist apocalypse? What do you feel for all the familys and dead ones, have you thought about how they feel? Would they too be wrong for wanting revenge because these few cowards are dead now, but there are 10,000 more willing to step up in line.What would it take and how many people dead would it take for you to admit we are at a tipping point? How many attacks?
Unlike you I've actually lived through a terrorist campaign targeted in the areas around where I was so don't try that tack.
None of what you say changes anything I said above. Your way makes it worse. Anbd again, your way is exactly what these attacks want to promote.
Luckily it will never happen because western democracies won't approve such extremes.
The question is now what this incident wil do to immigration policy and the Islamic State issue.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Ok, well look at Iran, they still want to wipe us out. We had them by the balls and now they got everything they asked for and more.So if we can't bomb them and we cant sanction them, what can we do, twiddle our thumbs?
We need pre crime, like in Minority Report, that is the only way to solve this without a blood bath.
Please don't bring wider politics into this thread. This is about this attack and its possible consequences.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Yes I know what it would take a lot, do you think telling them to reform peacefully is going to work? Look what is happening. Two weeks ago a plane, now this.If it takes a world war to end radical islam, then thats what it takes.
Or we all live in fear like the people in Paris now.
So Exterminatus, then? Won't happen, shouldn't happen.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You misunderstood, there was no tack.The questions was all the families if they want revenge, even if it's now on radical islam, because the would be cowards are dead, would you have a problem with that?
I have lived through Iraq and Afghanistan, btw.
Of course there was a tack. And this is already covered by what I said above.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Please don't bring wider politics into this thread. This is about this attack and its possible consequences.
I didn't know there were possible consequences, as it seems and group think is here, nothing can be done, and a war is pointless. So well all just sit around and wait for the next one.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I didn't know there were possible consequences, as it seems and group think is here, nothing can be done, and a war is pointless. So well all just sit around and wait for the next one.
Now you are just making things up. Only one person said nothing can be done. Others are giving alternatives; you are not even beginning to engage with them and see why your way is so wrong.
Don;t call it 'group think' just because everyone is against you.
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
So Exterminatus, then? Won't happen, shouldn't happen.
Similar mindsets were had in the US after 9/11, heard more than one person propose nuking Iran, Iraq, Jordan etc as a sensible option. This group-mentality/fear in part probably made it possible for the war on Iraq to be sold.
I'm assuming Hollande is more 'sensible' than the US administration was after 9/11.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
My post above yours addresses this.Its sad the world has to live in fear, and its sad everyone here is pretty much going to live with it.
It really doesn't. You just need to escape your raw power fantasy and get on board on how you fight an ideological battle. It is not with bombs and bullets. That will only ever be a sideshow.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
And your way just ends with more of them educated that way- it justifies their entire system.The ideological approach eventually cuts out the source.
How often does a person talk a killer or robber with a gun out of committing the crime?
We ain't talking our way out of this.