Originally posted by Q99Nor does Islam, on the whole. Smaller groups of either may do so.
Remember North Ireland? Christian religious fighting that went on for about 40 years with lots of terrorism, ended in '98? That's not exactly long ago.
Right one example of "Religious" fighting when the IRA weren't killing for religious motivations. I didn't know the IRA claimed an entire region of the world, was famous for invading other countries and subjugating their populace to dhimmi status and had archaic cultural practices straight from the stone age (genital mutiliation, stoning, apostate executions, beheadings.
And the reasons are a heck of a lot more complex than 'they're Muslim,' and the solutions that are likely to work similarly not so one dimensional.
I agree we should have a cultural dialogue, and talk to them about how the tenets of their religion talking about killing infidels, treating women like animals, and then attempt to understand their barbaric practices overall
Also, no, the numbers are not nearly that slanted, either in ratio (there's around 25 million Arab Muslims in Algeria, 20 million Arab Muslims in Morocco and Yemen each, around 10 million more in Tunisia- 100x just those four countries is 7.5 billion, more than the population of the Earth, and those countries aren't exactly known for terrorism), or percentage of terrorist attacks (page on terrorist attacks in the US).
Its the only religion in the world that's slamming planes into buildings, blowing up trains, can't tolerate criticism while its adherents live in Democratic societies, and seems to have a terrorist attack in varying countries every day. Also LOL @ mentioning US terrorism, again this is just one example of an attack in Europe, we aren't even counting the scores of examples from other Islamic groups across the globe killing their citizens.
There was a white Christian terrorist attack this year, it hit a Church in Charleston.
Which was rightfully condemned, but a drop in the bucket compared to the multitudes of examples of Islamic terrorism
There's the Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting not long before.The Oklahoma City bombing wasn't *that* long ago, and was as mentioned the second biggest in US history.
While they are not the most likely group to hit the US, they are the second most likely group to hit the US.
Islamic terrorism isn't just an issue in Europe or the US, so bringing up a few sordid examples of Lone wolf terrorists/or examples that occurred two decades ago doesn't help your case- when any observer of the news can go to the Middle east headlines and find out the antics of Isis or Al-Shabaab, or another Islamic group.
Originally posted by carthage
I agree we should have a cultural dialogue, and talk to them about how the tenets of their religion talking about killing infidels, treating women like animals, and then attempt to understand their barbaric practices overall
And we've got a lot of Arab Muslim countries where things are a whole lot better than others- walk around Morocco and you don't exactly have a lot to worry about in those areas.
One thing a lot of people don't realize is there is a relatively modern hard-line revival. The Arab world was liberalizing for a time, the word 'jihad' had pretty much fallen out of use, but the cold war triggered a nasty reaction (that the powers specifically encouraged because it was felt extremists would 'fight harder'. Yea, that was dumb).
And if things were stabilized, it'd be muuuch easier to push 'em into changing. Going boom hasn't helped with that. The Iraq war didn't reduce any of those things, did it?
It's not that I don't think they aren't bad. It's that I think "Grr, bomb them all!" (or worse, "Let's genocide them!"😉 not only doesn't work, it's been tested and found to do the opposite of work, and if I don't like something, I want something done about it that actually works, not just what makes someone who's angry about it wants done to feel good.
Islamic terrorism isn't just an issue in Europe or the US, so bringing up a few sordid examples of Lone wolf terrorists/or examples that occurred two decades ago doesn't help your case- when any observer of the news can go to the Middle east headlines and find out the antics of Isis or Al-Shabaab, or another Islamic group.
It's not, there is a difference in amount, scale, and so on. And is often the case, the biggest targets of a demographic's terrorism, are members of that demographic.
But it does help to understand that it's happening for reasons, and not just because 'Muslims are bad' or 'Arabs are bad,' and that looking at it flatly doesn't help us reduce the amount of attacks.
More than likely? This was done by some of those people that all the Arab Muslim refugees are running from after all. And those groups popped up because of some very specific preventable circumstances.
What we should be doing is both quashing those groups, and avoiding the circumstances that lead to their creation in the first place- no more running in, dropping a lot of bombs, and leaving a power vacuum so that the craziest warlord with a gun can threaten everyone into following.
Various world leaders respond to attacks
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said Israel will stand shoulder-to-shoulder with France against terrorism, and
Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi has called for a concentrated international effort to combat terrorism across the world.
Obama calls it an attack on humanity, and the Vatican in similar words an attack on peace for all humanity.
King Abdullah II of Jordan "expressed strong condemnation and indignation at the cowardly terrorist act."
Iran's condemned the attacks, and Hossein Jaber Ansari, of their Foreign Ministry: "Those terrorist groups that committed the Paris crimes do not believe in ethical principles and they are not loyal to any type of divine religions — including Islam."
And Canada's prime minister Justin Trudeau, "all of our help and support to the government of France."
There's a few more, but you get the idea.
Originally posted by REXXXX
A truly despicable act on behalf of the group that committed these crimes. Any confirmation on whether a group has claimed responsibility?
I don't know if it's *confirmed* confirmed, but it looks like Daesh/Isis.
Btw, for those who don't know, there was also a Isis-linked bombing that killed 43 in Beirut a few days ago.
They really are the enemies of just about everyone who's not them.
It is confirmed, or are you as usual looking for any opportunity to blame someone else.
Your excuses don't matter. and you should be ashamed of yourself for turning this into politics like you have been.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
It is confirmed, or are you as usual looking for any opportunity to blame someone else.Your excuses don't matter. and you should be ashamed of yourself for turning this into politics like you have been.
Please. You're the one who is trying to blame all Muslims. Like I've said repeatedly, I am entirely against blaming those who actually did it- I.e. Daesh/Isis.
I'll point out who kicked the predecessors of Isis out of Iraq in the first place- Sunni Muslims. Were it not for the Syrian situation, that'd likely have been the end of it.
There is a very large number of Arab Muslims who will gladly join us against Isis- or rather, are already fighting Isis.
I don't like your hate-filled view because it doesn't actually pay attention to who the enemy is, and plays into their hands and views of a grand culture clash- the message they use to try and get recruit. It's a diluted and weak approach, and won't help in the defeat of foes like Isis one bit.
Originally posted by Q99
Please. You're the one who is trying to blame all Muslims.I'll point out who kicked the predecessors of Isis out of Iraq in the first place- Sunni Muslims. Were it not for the Syrian situation, that'd likely have been the end of it.
There is a very large number of Arab Muslims who will gladly join us against Isis- or rather, are already fighting Isis.
I don't like your hate-filled view because it doesn't actually pay attention to who the enemy is, and plays into their hands and views of a grand culture clash- the message they use to try and get recruit. It's a diluted and weak approach, and won't help in the defeat of foes like Isis one bit.
Look at this dumb post, more political rhetoric.
I said it was ISIS, dumbass.
Originally posted by REXXXX
I somehow missed the Beirut bombing (which is also a tragedy) and genuinely just hadn't seen the confirmation as I had been working then out with friends. Hard to follow the news when you're trying to celebrate a birthday.My gut said ISIS... good to know I can trust it...
I don't generally recommend trusting guts, it's always best to confirm, but yea, the French President has said Daesh did it. I'm curious as to how they found out, but that'll likely come out with time.
Btw, Daesh is the term that is officially used for them by France. It's more properly arabic and more disrespectful, it's widely used by their foes in the region.
Originally posted by Q99
I don't generally recommend trusting guts, it's always best to confirm, but yea, the French President has said Daesh did it. I'm curious as to how they found out, but that'll likely come out with time.
So you are telling him what to trust now, who made you the go to person on fact checking? One of the persons they captured said they were ISIS, are you mentally retarded, or looking for any out here to find someone else to blame?
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Look at this dumb post, more political rhetoric.I said it was ISIS, dumbass.
Eventually, yes.
My point is, it is only Isis who did so, and not whoever else some may want to blame, and not focusing on Isis is an error. The exact kind of error Isis wants us to make- indiscriminate action aids recruitment and all.