I don't get why people even have a problem with saying we are at war with some form of Islam. It sucks if some people don't want to hear about the reality of the world, but then they can go continue their ostrich impressions and stuff their heads in the sand. I hear sand does wonders for the pores on your face.
It is also strange how all the news networks suddenly thought they were whites automatically. I'm sure they have perfectly legit reasons for it.
Originally posted by Surtur
I don't get why people even have a problem with saying we are at war with some form of Islam. It sucks if some people don't want to hear about the reality of the world, but then they can go continue their ostrich impressions and stuff their heads in the sand. I hear sand does wonders for the pores on your face.It is also strange how all the news networks suddenly thought they were whites automatically. I'm sure they have perfectly legit reasons for it.
Even still they say the "motive is unclear."
And they been running with "How bad we should feel about how this is going to affect Muslims."
Not about stopping it or destroying Isis.
I want to point out that when I say I don't care how this effects Muslims I just mean that isn't the biggest concern right now regarding this entire situation. It's not that I wouldn't care if people began gunning down random Muslims on the street over it.
As for his making this about guns I assume that is what you meant when you said he thought this was his white whale? But given what we now know about the situation it's not really about guns. Of course if they were able to obtain guns online we shouldn't be allowing that anymore so it doesn't mean we can't improve measures when it comes to guns. But there needs to be more dialogue then just the gun issue.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Did you know that abc, cbs and nbc cut all shows on and went right to the coverage and came up with the same story?"Three white males with assault rifles attack a disabled facility."
Cops knew within 10-15 minutes they were Muslim and what their names were from police radio traffic.
The cable news networks are still saying "the motive is so unclear."
The media and Obama though this going to be their white whale.
Sadly it came out to be their worst nightmare.
When they finally have to fess up and say Isis is here, and we are at war with some form of Islam.
Both in response to this post and to Red's a bit earlier, I think there's a huge difference between ISIS inspiring attacks and actually directing them with agents smuggled into the United States. The latter would be much more worrisome because it would show severe shortcomings in our national security, not to say that lone wolves aren't dangerous.
Lone wolves are a massive threat to America, probably moreso than ISIS itself, but I don't think it's right to say that "ISIS is here" based on what we know.
I also don't get the point of your "at war with some form of Islam" comment. How is that supposed to effect our behavior? Are we supposed to treat all Muslims with automatic suspicion? Please clarify what you mean by that so that I don't misunderstand you.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You didn't really answer my question.Both in response to this post and to Red's a bit earlier, I think there's a huge difference between ISIS inspiring attacks and actually directing them with agents smuggled into the United States. The latter would be much more worrisome because it would show severe shortcomings in our national security, not to say that lone wolves aren't dangerous.
Lone wolves are a massive threat to America, probably moreso than ISIS itself, but I don't think it's right to say that "ISIS is here" based on what we know.
I also don't get the point of your "at war with some form of Islam" comment. How is that supposed to effect our behavior? Are we supposed to treat all Muslims with automatic suspicion? Please clarify what you mean by that so that I don't misunderstand you.
Isn't it more worrisome for non-ISIS trained individuals being radicalized and then proceed to shoot up ppl at random due to simply being "inspired"? They are far harder to track and much harder to stop since there aren't really any records of them to suspect them of violence?
I mean let's not downplay things now....
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Isn't it more worrisome for non-ISIS trained individuals being radicalized and then proceed to shoot up ppl at random due to simply being "inspired"? They are far harder to track and much harder to stop since there aren't really any records of them to suspect them of violence?I mean let's not downplay things now....
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Both in response to this post and to Red's a bit earlier, I think there's a huge difference between ISIS inspiring attacks and actually directing them with agents smuggled into the United States. The latter would be much more worrisome because it would show severe shortcomings in our national security, not to say that lone wolves aren't dangerous.
Sounds a little like downplaying to me. /shrug
We don't know how ISIS is involved here, and that's not really my point. Saying that directing actual trained agents (ppl that can be tracked) is much more worrisome than normal everyday ppl going bonkers and suiciding themselves is not really accurate.
Lone wolves like the shooters here cannot be tracked, are hard to suspect and (as applicable to this case if the news reports regarding the neighbor are accurate) tend to be "shielded" by political correctness so they tend to get reported less for suspicious activity by everyday folks even when they do behave suspiciously.
That to me makes incidicents like this far harder to stop and is far more worrisome than any ISIS agent that law enforcement can most likely per-empt.
Originally posted by NibedicusIsn't that exactly what OV said as well though?
Lone wolves like the shooters here cannot be tracked, are hard to suspect and (as applicable to this case if the news reports regarding the neighbor are accurate) tend to be "shielded" by political correctness so they tend to get reported less for suspicious activity by everyday folks even when they do behave suspiciously.That to me makes incidicents like this far harder to stop and is far more worrisome than any ISIS agent that law enforcement can most likely per-empt.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lone wolves are a massive threat to America, probably moreso than ISIS itself
Originally posted by Bardock42
Isn't that exactly what OV said as well though?
Yes, I'm well aware of the slightly contradictory statement he made the paragraph after. Although both paragraphs can be separated with the idea that one implies what can scare a person more and the other implies what probable dangers exist in a general sense.
That is why I was addressing his statement of "much more worrisome" that he did as a comparative in the first paragraph. Consider the phrasing I used in my reply next time before posting, like I said, I DIRECTLY addressed the "worrisome" issue.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You didn't really answer my question.Both in response to this post and to Red's a bit earlier, I think there's a huge difference between ISIS inspiring attacks and actually directing them with agents smuggled into the United States. The latter would be much more worrisome because it would show severe shortcomings in our national security, not to say that lone wolves aren't dangerous.
Lone wolves are a massive threat to America, probably moreso than ISIS itself, but I don't think it's right to say that "ISIS is here" based on what we know.
I also don't get the point of your "at war with some form of Islam" comment. How is that supposed to effect our behavior? Are we supposed to treat all Muslims with automatic suspicion? Please clarify what you mean by that so that I don't misunderstand you.
Self radicalized in the name of an ideology are just as dangerous as the ones radicalized by Isis. It's the same thing.
And this woman did not work alone. Who trained her, who radicalized her? They don't have the money for this massive operation.
They barely looked like they had money to eat from what their apartment looked like.
They were here for one mission, To cause terrorism in the name of Islam.
Their entire apartment was littered with religious writing and posters and thugs about their faith.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Self radicalized in the name of an ideology are just as dangerous as the ones radicalized by Isis. It's the same thing.And this woman did not work alone. Who trained her, who radicalized her? They don't have the money for this massive operation.
They barely looked like they had money to eat from what their apartment looked like.
They were here for one mission, To cause terrorism in the name of Islam.
Their entire apartment was littered with religious writing and posters and thugs about their faith.
Originally posted by Omega Visionwhich is more worrisome is really a matter of perspective. you might regard them being able to smuggle people in as more worrisome because it highlights our own incompetence. or you might consider the fact that they don't need to smuggle people in as even more worrisome because it bypasses our traditional national security dynamic entirely. i think that it is a mistake to call people who are inspired by isis as "lone wolfs". a lot of isis's power is derived from radicalizing western muslims, rather than sneaking foreign agents into countries. failing to recognize this as a source of strength is failing to understand the enemy you are up against. i know that's not particularly convenient or easy to tackle politically... but it is what it is.
You didn't really answer my question.Both in response to this post and to Red's a bit earlier, I think there's a huge difference between ISIS inspiring attacks and actually directing them with agents smuggled into the United States. The latter would be much more worrisome because it would show severe shortcomings in our national security, not to say that lone wolves aren't dangerous.
Lone wolves are a massive threat to America, probably moreso than ISIS itself, but I don't think it's right to say that "ISIS is here" based on what we know.
I also don't get the point of your "at war with some form of Islam" comment. How is that supposed to effect our behavior? Are we supposed to treat all Muslims with automatic suspicion? Please clarify what you mean by that so that I don't misunderstand you.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Maybe the reason they didn't have money to eat was that they were spending it all on guns. Not being a smartass here, just pointing out that it's not hard in America to get guns.
And all the explosives they had were made from things you can legally buy. Its funny that the thought is some people here think these people are stupid. Do I extremely dislike them, yes.
Do I think they are stupid, no.
They will adapt and over come to the point where we will bend over backwards trying to stop them at the sake of our own freedom. Is that the world you want to live in, to be taken over legally, by the people that will stab you in the back after just throwing them a baby shower?
BY THE WAY NEWS FLASH, MEDIA STILL "UNCLEAR OF MOTIVE."
Lying idiots.
Originally posted by Time-ImmemorialThey will adapt and over come to the point where we will bend over backwards trying to stop them at the sake of our own freedom. Is that the world you want to live in, to be taken over legally, by the people that will stab you in the back after just throwing them a baby shower?
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Im not ranting. Do you agree that the more they attack us the more it will affect the lives and liberties of law abiding citizens.
I think what you're not considering is the well-being of all the Muslims in America who aren't radicalized. They're Americans too, and the instant we start thinking that profiling them will make us safer is the instant we compromise the values this country is supposed to stand for.