Originally posted by Smurph
Lol, you're going to claim that Xavier wasn't actively engaged in a psi fight that he says he's engaged in, and then claim that multiple instances of Cassandra Nova taunting people are all actually her failing to use telepathy?Double standards are fun, I guess.
Like sinister vs nate grey. Xavier kicked her out while she was wearing cerebra as well while his mind was scattered across every mutant on earth.
So Nova>Xavier>Nova?
Originally posted by abhilegendXavier sucker punched Nova. It was a planned surprise attack.
Weaker telepaths have beaten stronger telepaths due to connections in the mind.Like sinister vs nate grey. Xavier kicked her out while she was wearing cerebra as well while his mind was scattered across every mutant on earth.
So Nova>Xavier>Nova?
She, in contrast, went head to head with him in direct confrontation while he wore Cerebra, and won.
The mental connection was a plot tool to explain that she and Xavier had the same DNA, and why she wore his body like a glove.
Honestly, even with willful blindness to Cassandra dominating Xavier on panel, I think she still beats Manchester.
Originally posted by Galan007
Cassandra mindphucked pretty much the entire X-Men roster in AXM--had Wolverine making origami cutouts and crawling up trees, ffs....And she wasn't even at full power during that arc.
That was Emma. Nova was explicitly unable to mindphuck Wolverine and Beast when they went feral - but in AXM, Emma was able to.
Originally posted by "Id"
She did a Number on the Shi'Ar empire. Had Gladiator shit or piss on himself.
She initially tricked the Shi-Ar empire - confirmed by Gladiator. Never mind-controlled them. Once they realised they were batting for the same side, the Guardians all switched to fight by the X-men's side. They just blindly followed Lilandra's orders without question:
http://postimg.org/image/5f8czdbwz/
More proof of their blind obedience. Note how others are able to see through Nova's lies, and are killed:
http://postimg.org/image/daiwe6ljn/
Mind-armour? The Stepfords tore it apart, and took Oracle, a TP Guardian, down:
http://postimg.org/image/wec7uiydv/
Jean, whilst dying, was already testing it:
http://postimg.org/image/5f8czdbwz/
High showing for the Cuckoos? Sure. But in that arc, what feats do their mind-armour have?
Originally posted by Smurph
Lol, you're going to claim that Xavier wasn't actively engaged in a psi fight that he says he's engaged in, and then claim that multiple instances of Cassandra Nova taunting people are all actually her failing to use telepathy?Double standards are fun, I guess.
Charles was already compromised, not to mention he was attacked mid-sentence in that scene with Nova. So, suckerpunch? 😛
As for taunting? Beast could have killed her at the start, Nova confirms he doesn't do so because he doesn't want to hurt the Prof:
http://postimg.org/image/crwbgjd3n/
Cyclops didn't kill himself, and could've stopped her:
http://postimg.org/image/5ecc3u3o3/
http://postimg.org/image/ua5rrbqc3/
Wolverine and Beast could've stopped her, so she needed to use the students to stop them once she realised Logan, unlike the others, would actually go as far as to kill Chuck:
http://postimg.org/image/g9ei155hv/
I NEVER said she was failing to use TP. I'm saying she was, and she was straight up being resisted - you can see the TP thought bubbles around Cyclops (who just ignores her), and around Beast//Logan.
Originally posted by Smurph
Xavier sucker punched Nova. It was a planned surprise attack.She, in contrast, went head to head with him in direct confrontation while he wore Cerebra, and won.
The mental connection was a plot tool to explain that she and Xavier had the same DNA, and why she wore his body like a glove.
Honestly, even with willful blindness to Cassandra dominating Xavier on panel, I think she still beats Manchester.
And Nova sucker punched Xavier when she effortlessly took control of his mind in Ecuador, following the wide open trail left by Cerebra and using the special connection they share:
http://postimg.org/image/vb60gg7bn/
http://postimg.org/image/kupwe48b7/
But yeah, apparently THIS sucker punch doesn't count. Look how nonchalant Xavier is, whistling his happy little tune....
Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/T0mYUc5.jpg
👆 I accept this wholeheartedly, without argument.
Originally posted by carver9
👆Cassandra gets the majority.
Hush. Adults are talking.
Originally posted by Smurph
Xavier sucker punched Nova. It was a planned surprise attack.She, in contrast, went head to head with him in direct confrontation while he wore Cerebra, and won.
The mental connection was a plot tool to explain that she and Xavier had the same DNA, and why she wore his body like a glove.
Honestly, even with willful blindness to Cassandra dominating Xavier on panel, I think she still beats Manchester.
She is his identical twin with all his powers. It makes no sense for her to be several magnitudes powerful than him and that's nowhere stated.
And mental connection wasn't a tool to explain everything. It was a byproduct of her being his identical twin.
And no, it doesn't. Manchester has the most ridiculous showings for any telepath who was around so short a time. Nova can't even deal with Beast and Logan's animalistic minds.
Chester effortlessly reprogrammed both Doomsday and Bizarro.
Originally posted by Smurph
Lowballing, hyperbole, etc.
Great discussion 👆
I think their connection is the reason why Nova could usurp Charles' body after his defeat, not why she was able to overpower him. Since it's a connection, it would have to be a two way thing and something that Charles would be able to take advantage of if had any bearing on a straight up battle.
At any rate, the incident that Nova is referring to when talking to Beast happened AFTER she was captured. It should have no bearing on the trouncing Xavier suffered prior to that. I see how it's a convincing argument for why she was able to actually hijack his body, but not how it's the cause of her earlier victory.
I can go back to find the scans, but wasn't her nose bleeding from concentration when she overpowered Cerebra Xavier?
That battle wasn't effortless for her, it was a direct head-to-head domination.
Simultaneously beating Xavier, Jean, and Scott down did seem effortless, but then, there was no Cerebra involved.
Originally posted by abhilegend😬 She is a Mummudrai that built a body using his DNA and got access to his full potential.
She is his identical twin with all his powers. It makes no sense for her to be several magnitudes powerful than him and that's nowhere stated.
She's literally a psychic being using unlocked Xavier genes.
Name one decent telepath the psi dampers have stopped?
Off the top of my head, Gladiator forced Rachel Summers out of his mind.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85You're right. Cassandra was just the tempter--she planted all the seeds within Emma's subconscious. The other TP feats were Emma's, though. 👆
That was Emma.
Regardless, it was still made clear that Cassandra>>Emma in that arc:
Originally posted by SmurphYes. Here is the scene:
I can go back to find the scans, but wasn't her nose bleeding from concentration when she overpowered Cerebra Xavier?
And again, Cerebra amped Chuck's psychic senses to the tenth power:
Originally posted by Smurph
I can go back to find the scans, but wasn't her nose bleeding from concentration when she overpowered Cerebra Xavier?That battle wasn't effortless for her, it was a direct head-to-head domination.
Simultaneously beating Xavier, Jean, and Scott down did seem effortless, but then, there was no Cerebra involved.
What?
😬 She is a Mummudrai that built a body using his DNA and got access to his full potential.She's literally a psychic being using unlocked Xavier genes.
Yes, who is equal to him in power. Not above him by 10th power.
He kicked her out of his body while scattered across billions of mutants.
Much better than using a connection to basically suckershot him.
[b] Off the top of my head, Gladiator forced Rachel Summers out of his mind.
Not due to psi damper. Rachel is useless anyway.
Originally posted by Galan007
You're right. Cassandra was just the tempter--she planted all the seeds within Emma's subconscious. The other TP feats were Emma's, though. 👆Regardless, it was still made clear that Cassandra>>Emma in that arc:
And again, Cerebra amped Chuck's psychic senses to the tenth power:
There is no indication he was using it to amp himself up to 10th power.
Originally posted by abhilegendCassandra using Cerebra to locate Chuck doesn't change its fundamental purpose--it amps its wearer's psychic senses to the tenth power.
Cerebra was useless in that scene for him as she used it as a backdoor to basically suckershot him.There is no indication he was using it to amp himself up to 10th power.
To say that Cerebra wasn't doing what it was built to do in that scene is... Baseless, to say the least. srsly
Originally posted by krisblaze
Great discussion 👆I think their connection is the reason why Nova could usurp Charles' body after his defeat, not why she was able to overpower him. Since it's a connection, it would have to be a two way thing and something that Charles would be able to take advantage of if had any bearing on a straight up battle.
At any rate, the incident that Nova is referring to when talking to Beast happened AFTER she was captured. It should have no bearing on the trouncing Xavier suffered prior to that. I see how it's a convincing argument for why she was able to actually hijack his body, but not how it's the cause of her earlier victory.
Yes, this is actually quite a civilised discourse, am pleased 🙂
So when did she take over Xavier's mind? At what point can one say 'oh, these were the actions of Nova, and these were the actions of Xavier'?
You say that it had no bearing on the trouncing - can you be 100% sure he was 100% Xavier in that encounter?
Originally posted by Smurph
I can go back to find the scans, but wasn't her nose bleeding from concentration when she overpowered Cerebra Xavier?That battle wasn't effortless for her, it was a direct head-to-head domination.
Simultaneously beating Xavier, Jean, and Scott down did seem effortless, but then, there was no Cerebra involved. 😬 She is a Mummudrai that built a body using his DNA and got access to his full potential.
She was simultaneously controlling her puppet soldiers, whilst conversing with Trask, whilst taking Xavier over. That's no knock on her; it WAS Xavier,a fter all, that she was taking over.
She TK'ed Xavier and KOed him; Jean and Scott were already infected by nano Sentinels; so hardly the great victory.
Originally posted by Galan007
You're right. Cassandra was just the tempter--she planted all the seeds within Emma's subconscious. The other TP feats were Emma's, though. 👆Regardless, it was still made clear that Cassandra>>Emma in that arc:
Agreed. Cassandra > Emma. Never doubted that.
Originally posted by Galan007
[B]Cassandra using Cerebra to locate Chuck doesn't change its fundamental purpose--it amps its wearer's psychic senses to the tenth power.To say that Cerebra wasn't doing what it was built to do in that scene is... Baseless, to say the least. srsly
👆
It amps his senses. Giving him global sensory reach.
Did it amp his TP defences?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Cerebra amps the mind across the board(Cassandra literally called it a "mind amplifier".) It doesn't just boost its wearer's psychic senses--it boosts their overall psychic power as well:
👆It amps his senses. Giving him global sensory reach.
Did it amp his TP defences?
Do I think Cerebra would therefore boost its wearer's psychic defenses? Absolutely.
