The OFFICIAL 'Is there more than one Matrix?' thread

Uuummm...has anyone considered the possibility that not only are there nested matrices (in my opinion 2 levels at most) but also that Neo (like smith and the oracle) is a program specially created as a form of control. Here's how my theory goes.

The architect (on suggestions from the oracle) creates the "real world" (an alternate Matrix) as a form of control for those who reject the perfection of the Matirix we have come to love and know. To make this form of freedom realisitic the architect creates "The One" as the first person to escape the Matrix. The one is specially written to have the ability to manipulate the Matrix. His "code" is transferred into the human population (who are themselves still computer projections of their real selves) in this "real world" to lie dormant only to be rewakened at some later time as the reincarnation of the one. The reason the oracle can predict his every move is because he is essentially a program i.e. deterministic, in a sense. When he destroyed Smith in the first film part of Neo's code was transferred to Smith. Among other things the ability to transcend Matrix levels (The ability to enter the "real world"😉. Also, part of what "the one" is supposed to do is now known to Smith although he doesn't quite understand it. This is why he is always around the corner everywhere Neo goes and he makes comments like "..Surprised to see me. I'm not surprised to see you".

The sequence of events that start with finding "the one" and ending with "the one" facing the architect has occured multiple times (6 to be exact). However, this time "the one" program has the same flaw that made the humans reject the 1st Matrix program. The problem of choice. This is compounded by his love of Trinity so that for the first time "The one" does not choose to re-enter the cycle which his predecessors had, so many times in the past, done. This leaves a possibility that has never been considered before.

I'll shu my yap now. Comments anyone?
😉

Originally posted by In_cite
His "code" is transferred into the human population (who are themselves still computer projections of their real selves) in this "real world" to lie dormant only to be rewakened at some later time as the reincarnation of the one.

Just to clearify. This reinsertion of the one's code into the 20th Century Matrix that we know and love, thus facilitating his reincarnation, is done upon him meeting the architect and making a choice to return to the source (which incidentally all programs do at the end of their usefulness) or doom mankind.

Also, let's not forget that Neo was reminded (in zion and not in the 20th Century Matrix) that "...there is no spoon". Why would he be reminded about this fact even after his realisation of what he can do within the 20th Century Matrix if not for the simple reason that the philosophy holds true, even in zion.

Originally posted by Tuur
Nope. Neo still says 'something has changed' and 'I can feel them'.

Which obviously has nothing to do with the Hammer.

That doesn't mean he stoped them. 😉

Originally posted by In_cite

Also, let's not forget that Neo was reminded (in zion and not in the 20th Century Matrix) that "...there is no spoon". Why would he be reminded about this fact even after his realisation of what he can do within the 20th Century Matrix if not for the simple reason that the philosophy holds true, even in zion.

This could simply be an easter egg or to remind us of the kid so hey could use him in 3.Could mean lots of things. 😉

Originally posted by Kes
This could simply be an easter egg or to remind us of the kid so hey could use him in 3.Could mean lots of things. 😉

Quite possible,...however unlikely that the reason for that scene would be that insignificant. In this unfolding tale while some details can be easily explained by chance happenings or cheap attempts to make connections with the first film I thought it rather significant that Neo was given the spoon as he was going to see the oracle (like it happened in the first film). Notice there was no focus on the kid who sent the spoon per sa (thus somewhat refuting your theory that the point was maybe to use the kid again in the 3rd film). The point, it seems to me, was that even in zion Neo needed to be reminded that "...there is no spoon!". The bit at the end when he stops the sentinels is only him beginning to realise this "truth", if somewhat unconciously.

😉

Originally posted by In_cite
Quite possible,...however unlikely that the reason for that scene would be that insignificant. In this unfolding tale while some details can be easily explained by chance happenings or cheap attempts to make connections with the first film I thought it rather significant that Neo was given the spoon as he was going to see the oracle (like it happened in the first film). Notice there was no focus on the kid who sent the spoon per sa (thus somewhat refuting your theory that the point was maybe to use the kid again in the 3rd film). The point, it seems to me, was that even in zion Neo needed to be reminded that "...there is no spoon!". The bit at the end when he stops the sentinels is only him beginning to realise this "truth", if somewhat unconciously.

😉

Good point.When I say use the kid in the 3rd movie its because in the trailer they talk about a child which could be the kid that brings the spoon or the kid that made the spoon! lol 😎

Originally posted by Kes
That doesn't mean he stoped them. 😉

Agreed. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't the Hammer. 😆

Originally posted by Tomkat
But still, I hope there's no "Real-World Super-Neo."

Agreed.

I VERY much doubt we will see a real world super-Neo.

I will just say one word on the Matrix within a Matrix subject:

Bollocks!

I don't have to explain any more because if you have watched the films properly and listened to then then you would KNOW there is only 1 Matrix.

I agree! I cant even understand how they came up with the more than one matrix theory!😑

Sorry if this repeats anything already said, I haven’t read ‘em all!

Has anybody considered yet that maybe, if Zion were a Matrix within a Matrix, the machines are lying about much of the history of the war. If this were the case, the ‘scorched skies’ etc in the first film may not necessarily be true. The reason I consider this is that there must somehow be an end to the film – they don’t intend on making anymore. Therefore, everybody cannot become unplugged from the system at once as there are no resources – and it would be the end of humanity if they all died when released. Therefore, what’s stopping the war from being over and all of the matrix an illusion, maybe for power as suggested, as humans are said to be the best source of power available. Maybe millions of humans are out there, fighting daily, terminator style.

I refute the suggestions that Zion contains the 1% of people who reject the Matrix and therefore must be in the real world for two reasons. Firstly, wouldn’t the machines just let them die rather then let them escape into the real world and rebel? Secondly, it could easily contain the 1% that rejected the ‘original’ (or first level of) matrix. If they were given the illusion of being free, then what’s saying that they wouldn’t believe it. Neo can’t sleep in the Zion world either, as stated by the Oracle, therefore he is rejecting the second level of the Matrix. Others, however, believe that they are free and therefore do accept it.

I believe he stopped the Sentinels at the end of Matrix 2 by any of a combination of factors. Agents can control sentinels – in Matrix 1 they ordered smith to deploy them. If Zion is still a Matrix, then what is stopping Neo hacking them in order to stop them. His statement ‘something’s changed’ just before he does stop them could be traced back to his meeting with the oracle in Matrix 2. She insists on him eating what she offers. Maybe this is some sort of programme, as witnessed later in the film; programmes can be digested (eg the fit woman getting a little hot under the collar). If this was the case, she may have given him the code required to have power (or something similar) in the Zion matrix.
However, this could all be countered by the arguments that either they are still in the matrix ‘reloaded’ to make them think they got out, or that smith or some other external factor influenced what happened – there could easily be a twist in there somewhere!

Arguments will come that the Oracle has no reason to help Neo. However, in the M3 trailers, we hear the new oracle’s voice saying that ‘he must be stopped’ – seemingly referring to Smith. I believe that she is helping Neo as there is some sort of power struggle going on within the machines. Originally, they were a singular consciousness. But there seem to be splits – some of the ‘machines’ (really just code – computer programmes), are separate and do their own thing by not returning to the Source – including Smith. If he were to continue getting stronger, coupled with his ability to transfer to the Zion matrix, where agents probably aren’t supposed to go due to the people there being the 1% who need to be given the feeling and belief that they are totally free from the Matrix, he could threaten the machines by becoming more powerful than the hierarchy that seems to exist – although they are a singular consciousness, some tasks are obviously more important, and a hierarchy would obviously form (eg the Architect). Smith could be threatening this, and only the Oracle uses Neo as the tool to stop Smith.

From another thread.....

Originally posted by The Omega
....And when Tank managed to shoot Cypher in M1 that was just luck.

😈 Not if the "real-world" Zion realm is also part of the Matrix

Originally posted by The Omega
What kind of reprogramming of the Matrix, what power of the anomaly, could possibly have affected the real world,

😈 Well, if the "real-world" is actually still part of the Matrix, then it would explain that wouldn't it?

Originally posted by The Omega
so Cypher was shot at the exact moment he was (that was a storytelling trick. If Cypher had succeeded, then… end of story).

Storytelling trick? Maybe that's what you were meant to believe. 😈

But...that's another thread (This one! heheh)

Its an easy way to explain how neo stopped the sqigies

I don't think people can grasp how Neo can control the machines (Sentinals) at the end of Reloaded. Remember what Morpheus said about the One before Neo. He could pass in and out of the Matrix at will.

Then in the game the Oracle says: Neo's mind has touched the source, he is trapped between your world and our world. etc etc.

Then the Architect says: "This process has altered your consciousness...although you remain irrevocably human"

His mind is still in the Matrix. If this is so then he can control anything linked with it (In theory). Or possibly it is an ability gained from Smith:

Something was copied, over written...whatever it was it doesn't matter...etc etc

He could control the Sentinels as an Agent. There are a few other explantions, but NONE of them come even close to showing that there is a Matrix within a Matrix.

Originally posted by Sifer
I will just say one word on the Matrix within a Matrix subject:

Bollocks!

I don't have to explain any more because if you have watched the films properly and listened to then then you would KNOW there is only 1 Matrix.

Oh really? So you KNOW there is only 1 Matrix? You've seen "Revolutions" already?

Originally posted by Kes
I agree! I cant even understand how they came up with the more than one matrix theory!😑

Look, I'm not saying for certain that there is more than 1 level of the Matrix, I could be wrong. But, isn't there enough "evidence" to even consider that there COULD be more than 1? I mean it's at least worth CONSIDERING, even if it's wrong.
It seems to me that 1 Matrix cannot be proven without a reasonable doubt, because there are plenty of arguements here which "raise doubt." So please, expand your minds a little and at least consider it. "Bollocks!" is a pretty narrow-minded response.

Originally posted by dane

...there must somehow be an end to the film – they don’t intend on making anymore. . .

Well Keanu Reeves and Carrie- Ann Moss as well, f i'm not mistaken, have said that they dont want to make anymore wich tells that more movies can be made. So the matrix probably isn't going to be destroied.

Originally posted by Tomkat

Look, I'm not saying for certain that there is more than 1 level of the Matrix, I could be wrong. But, isn't there enough "evidence" to even consider that there [B]COULD be more than 1? I mean it's at least worth CONSIDERING, even if it's wrong.
It seems to me that 1 Matrix cannot be proven without a reasonable doubt, because there are plenty of arguements here which "raise doubt." So please, expand your minds a little and at least consider it. "Bollocks!" is a pretty narrow-minded response. [/B]

Its not being narrow-minded its simply keeping things simple because if they pull the 'There is more than one Matrix' than the next movie is going to be very borring! They would have alot of explaining to do! That's all! The Matrix 2 already had way to many boring dialoges, most of them were actually monologes!Not to mention phylosophic conversations, I just want an end. 😕

Lets see...my views...Neo and Smith connection has allowed Neo to communicate with the robots and smith to control humans...I don't believe that there is another matrix...it is possible for Smith to gain some kind of mind control over humans(...like brain washing). The fact that Neo was knocked out after he stopped the robots could be an excellent sign that they are not in another matrix...

As far as Revolutions...Smith is going to try converting the entire matrix...i believe it is a possiblity that he is going to convert the architech...and hence be the ruling power...Hence smith demise would be the end of the matrix...

I did consider it though, and there really isnt enough evidence to support it. After watching both films straight after each other then watching the Animatrix...it's very clear there isn't a Matrix within a Matrix.

Also, I don't think the Wachowski's would be that predictable and cheesy.

Originally posted by Kes
....I just want an end. 😕

As do I.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is an easy way to wrap up all of the "loose-ends" in the story so to speak.

For example, If the machines are defeated, and all of the millions of humans still plugged into the Matrix suddenly "wake up," what will happen? Where will they all go? How do you feed them all? There aren't enough hovercraft in Zion's fleet to save them all from "drowning" when they get "flushed." Do you understand why I wonder about these things?

Just because you want it to end a certain way doesn't mean it will. The same statement applies to me as well, I could be WAY OFF with my ideas. I'll admit I could be wrong, it's only fair to ask the "Only 1 Matrix" believers to do the same.

I can see how there could be only 1 Matrix, it's a pretty straightforward concept. (Even though at this point in the story there are some "reaches" that have to be made if you choose to believe that, like Neo somehow remaining in control of the Matrix when in the "real world"😉 However, I always like to "read between the lines." It's fun, even if I read too much into things and it all turns out to be wrong.