Originally posted by Kes
In cite why would humans believe they are free in the Zion world and not in the normal world? I think I have already made this question and got no answer.Please make it a short one.It's late.🙂
They would believe they are free in Zion because:
1. They would have a reason why the world they were in felt wrong i.e. they would know about The Matrix and the machines.
2. They would be involved in freeing others from the Matrix which makes the illusion more believable!
3. There would be some who would believe the prophecy of the one. Since the one can "bend" the matrix it will give the humans who are free Hope that they will one day free evryone else. This is an important part of the deception!
The point is to keep them distracted so they don't "wise -up" which is what seems to be happening with Neo and the Sentinels!
I have other points but I'll stop there,...for Now! I know when I'm outnumbered. See ya Kes! 😉
Originally posted by princess leia
i think they reject is cos they know that its not right. somewhere in some level of conciousness.
I couldn't have said it better! 🙂 They have the choice even if at some "...unconcious" level. This is always a possibility (i.e. they could reject Zion too). However, up until now the machines have kept them so busy thinking about thier "War on the machines". Nobody has had very strong doubts about Zion because of this. It's all part of the deception...until now when Neo has realised "...something is different"! 🙂
Originally posted by Kes
Still not good enough.😛 You think they are not busy in the real world? It just exists for to long for Neo to be the 1st one to realise it.
...but they are busy in the (in the 20th Century Matrix). Remember that most people don't even realise they are in the Matrix. However, some people realised that "...there was something wrong" and as such began to see beyond the illusion. That's why Zion was created. So that the humans would be decieved into thinking that the reason there was something wrong ws because they were in a Matrix controlled by the machines,...and now they are free! They would have a reason WHY there was something wrong. However, the same thing could happen in Zion which is where the downfall of the machines lies. The reason why it has taken so long to realise it is because all the other times the one has done what the machines wanted him to do,...reload the Matrix and rebuild Zion. However, this time Neo did the opposite and as such has become a random factor in their plans. 😉
(read my theory in page 12 of this thread)
I think the machines in matrix5 (the world of Zion) doesn't know they are inside of matrix, even the machines in matrix5 think they are in the real world and know nothing about the other matrices, except for some that are instruments of control of the machines on matrix 4, just like the agents are the instrument of control of matrix5. Smith, Neo, Morpheus, and everybody in Zion, believes Zion world is the real world, but the Oracle and the Arquitect knows everything, they may be the only characters in the movie that exist (as machines, of course) in the real world (the one above the 6 matrices)
If didn't understand anything, read my theory on page 12 of this thread.
Originally posted by ZlotZ
(read my theory in page 12 of this thread)I think the machines in matrix5 ...machines, of course) in the real world (the one above the 6 matrices)
If didn't understand anything, read my theory on page 12 of this thread.
I dont believe in 2Matrix much less 5 or 6! 🤪
Ok In cite but how do they wake up from one to the other? How can the machines arrege(sp) that?And what about passing from one to another, i mean they create 2digital selfs? and when they die they leave to bodys? dont you thinks is way to much power for the humans? How did the kid die and woke up in the zion matrix, i mean they had never told him about it! he just knew something was wrong.
Originally posted by Kes
I dont believe in 2Matrix much less 5 or 6! 🤪
Ok In cite but how do they wake up from one to the other? How can the machines arrege(sp) that?And what about passing from one to another, i mean they create 2digital selfs? and when they die they leave to bodys? dont you thinks is way to much power for the humans? How did the kid die and woke up in the zion matrix, i mean they had never told him about it! he just knew something was wrong.
Excellent question! They wake up in Zion when they are offered "the red pill" and accept it by someone who has already "woken up", that is, is already "free". This is where "The One" becomes an important part of the deception. "The one" is supposed to have been "the first" person to be free. However, the One does not know that he is being used as a deception by the machines. About there being 2digital selfs this is not a problem. Note that they are connected (if you bleed in the Matrix you bleed in Zion) and as such are really just 2 projections of the same individual. Also, notice that both cannot be active at the same time.
When they die (in the 20th Century Matrix) AFTER they have been freed (allowed to enter Zion) they do leave 2 digital selves. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "...way too much power for the humans", though.
uummm...I'm not sure of which kid you are talking about! 🙄 And by the way,...I don't believe in more than 2 Matrices! 🙂
Originally posted by Kes
I dont believe in 2Matrix much less 5 or 6! 🤪
Ok In cite but how do they wake up from one to the other? How can the machines arrege(sp) that?And what about passing from one to another, i mean they create 2digital selfs? and when they die they leave to bodys? dont you thinks is way to much power for the humans? How did the kid die and woke up in the zion matrix, i mean they had never told him about it! he just knew something was wrong.
The machines only allow human digital selfs to move from one Matrix to the other. The machines still have Sentinels, in Zion, and as such still control the system. Smith could only move from one to the other because, after his contact with Neo, he can possess human digital selfs. However, the infected human digital self does not look like smith because Smith's projection does not exist in Zion. Smith is a virus. A program that infects other programs. He does not alter the appearance of the programs he takes over (in Zion) because his appearance (digital image) never existed here. Ther was never a Smith in Zion. He can alter those in the Matrix because he was an agent of the system and as such had a digital image here. 😉
Originally posted by The Omega
Goodness. I forgot this thread.
Aside from Neo being able to stop the sentinels (which has an explanation in the One Matrix Only theory, please see appropriate threads). Are there any other evidence for more than one matrix?
Like all the other arguments for Matrix philosphies the "evidence" is circumstancial. I wouldn't want to go into details but I've spent a lot of time explaining the whole possibility of the "Zion is a Matrix" concept. If you're interested you can glance at some of the replies in the last 2-3 pages! I prefer the 2 Matrix explanation to most of what is out there partly because to not believe Zion is a Matrix is to believe that
1. Neo has real Super-powers and is some knid of "Real life Superhero". Now wouldn't all you X-men fans just love that. 🙂
2. The machines are suckers for pain. They allow The one to start Zion over and over and over again only for Zion to be a problem everytime!
3. Neo is really a reincarnation that has been predicted by the machines (the oracle) for at least 5 accurate occurences. What are we saying here people? Are the machines Gods?
😄
In cite when they are released from the matrix they dont die. they disapear. like the phone thing.
so they leave nothing.
the kid is the one that follows neo around in the animatrix the kid's story they explain to us that he comited suicied to leave the matrix! how would he than wake up in a fake zion. The 2 much power thing is the ability to go from one matrix to the other and create multyple selfs. AS for Smith because he copied himself into bane he was able to download himself into banes body, just like bane himself was about to do.
Originally posted by In_cite
1. Neo has real Super-powers and is some knid of "Real life Superhero". Now wouldn't all you X-men fans just love that. 🙂2. The machines are suckers for pain. They allow The one to start Zion over and over and over again only for Zion to be a problem everytime!
3. Neo is really a reincarnation that has been predicted by the machines (the oracle) for at least 5 accurate occurences. What are we saying here people? Are the machines Gods?
😄
For 1 you have the hammer and neo's encouter with the agent.
For 2 The architect himself says the one is a necessaty. and that if he choses to save trinity the matrix would crash and everybody would die.
For 3 the one is a glitch that keeps occuring and will occur again. not real a prediction but a fact. so no gods.
Originally posted by Kes
In cite when they are released from the matrix they dont die. they disapear. like the phone thing.
so they leave nothing.
the kid is the one that follows neo around in the animatrix the kid's story they explain to us that he comited suicied to leave the matrix! how would he than wake up in a fake zion. The 2 much power thing is the ability to go from one matrix to the other and create multyple selfs. AS for Smith because he copied himself into bane he was able to download himself into banes body, just like bane himself was about to do.
I didn't say they die when they are released from the matrix. I said if they have been released from the Matrix and then they die in the Matrix (like the team that was supposed to shut down the back up power plant) they leave 2 digital selfs dead. One in the Matrix and one in Zion. 🙂
About the kid. The simple explanation is that the kid knew something was wrong and as such soughta way of escaping it (by commiting suicide). On doing this the machines just present him with another "reality". He now has proof that he's feeling of "something is wrong" is justified. The deception continues! 🙂 The REASON why he committed suicide was because he knew there was something wrong with the reality he was presented. SUICIDE was his way of escape, his own "red pill". If this wasn't the reason for his suicide things might have turned out differently, that is, not everyone that commits suicide ends up in Zion simply because thier reasons for suicide are quite different.
"AS for Smith because he copied himself into bane he was able to download himself into banes body, just like bane himself was about to do."
I agree. However, your explanation requires that smith (a program)knows how to "Re-wire" a human brain in such a way that it is totally taken over by him. It does only what he wants it to do. Seeing as he has never done this before the explanation, though plausible, is difficult to justify. However, if Bane was a digital projection, even in Zion, then Smith has just "infected" Banes digital projection.
In-cite> Neo could also stop the sentinels since his mind is trapped in the Source, that is , it’s right there in the big remote controller.
The Machines allow Zion to be rebuild so they have something to black-mail the anomaly with, when it reaches the Architect.
And the anomaly is a result of a glitch in the matrix-program, something the Architect had to write into the system to make it work.
There is then no need for a second Matrix. 🙂
Originally posted by In_cite
About the kid. The simple explanation is that the kid knew something was wrong and as such soughta way of escaping it (by commiting suicide). On doing this the machines just present him with another "reality". He now has proof that he's feeling of "something is wrong" is justified. The deception continues! 🙂 [B]Why not just allow him to die?its one kid! and it was a 1st time, i dont think the machines were ready for that.
[B]
I agree. However, your explanation requires that smith (a program)knows how to "Re-wire" a human brain in such a way that it is totally taken over by him.
once again why not? thats what you say the machines do. smith deploies the machines in the 1st one so he has some power after what neo did he can also bend the rules