Originally posted by quanchi112
It is up to you to prove he's too strong to be held. If you believe something is true the onus is on for you to prove it not for me to disprove your theory.
Sorry Quan, but I have to agree with them here. This is a no limits fallacy. Just because Kylo can force-hold a human doesn't mean he can force-hold an entire building from collapsing.
To make the claim that he can force-hold Loki in the middle of a fight you'd have to prove that he can hold someone/something as powerful as Loki.
Basically the way you're forming your argument sounds like this: Person A has proven he can run 10 mph, therefore he is also able to run 100 mph... unless you can prove that he cannot.
Originally posted by FrothByteNo, you'd have to claim he's strong enough to resist it. The ability is proven so if you feel Loki is too strong to be held prove he goes 100 mph so to speak. You're just asking me to accept your beliefs without proof.
Sorry Quan, but I have to agree with them here. This is a no limits fallacy. Just because Kylo can force-hold a human doesn't mean he can force-hold an entire building from collapsing.To make the claim that he can force-hold Loki in the middle of a fight you'd have to prove that he can hold someone/something as powerful as Loki.
Basically the way you're forming your argument sounds like this: Person A has proven he can run 10 mph, therefore he is also able to run 100 mph... unless you can prove that he cannot.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, you'd have to claim he's strong enough to resist it. The ability is proven so if you feel Loki is too strong to be held prove he goes 100 mph so to speak. You're just asking me to accept your beliefs without proof.
Ok, let me repeat my analogy. If person A is able to bench press 100 lbs, would you also automatically assume he can bench press 1000 lbs?
Because that's basically what you're asking us to believe here.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on ?
Captain America can hold a motorcycle with 3 grown women above his head for an extended duration without breaking a sweat.
He's strong enough to hold a car from falling. Strong enough to punch through a submarine window. Strong enough to tear a log with his bare hands.
Rey and Poe are nowhere near Cap's strength, and yet a full kick from Cap doesn't even knock Loki back which would indicate that Loki is magnitudes above Cap in strength.
An Asgardian woman is easily able to push a van (or was it a trailer). Not even 10 Reys could accomplish the same feat. Thor is considered one of the most powerful Asgardians. Loki is able to block hits from Thor.
That puts Loki more than 10x the strength level of either Rey or Poe.
I mean seriously, do you really think that 10 fit humans can overpower Loki?
Originally posted by FrothByteDurability isn't strength.
Captain America can hold a motorcycle with 3 grown women above his head for an extended duration without breaking a sweat.He's strong enough to hold a car from falling. Strong enough to punch through a submarine window. Strong enough to tear a log with his bare hands.
Rey and Poe are nowhere near Cap's strength, and yet a full kick from Cap doesn't even knock Loki back which would indicate that Loki is magnitudes above Cap in strength.
An Asgardian woman is easily able to push a van (or was it a trailer). Not even 10 Reys could accomplish the same feat. Thor is considered one of the most powerful Asgardians. Loki is able to block hits from Thor.
That puts Loki more than 10x the strength level of either Rey or Poe.
I mean seriously, do you really think that 10 fit humans can overpower Loki?
Cap can block hits from Thor does that mean he's as strong as Thor. No.
We've also seen the force move things easily thirty times as strong as Rey or Poe.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Durability isn't strength.Cap can block hits from Thor does that mean he's as strong as Thor. No.
We've also seen the force move things easily thirty times as strong as Rey or Poe.
I'm not talking about durability. I'm talking about Cap not being able to push Loki even a step back with a full powered kick. That's not durability, that's strength.
Also, being able to block blows from someone implies that you are somewhere near that person's strength range... because it's completely stupid to think a 5 year old child can block a full strength strike from an adult heavyweight right?
As for the force moving heavier objects, it was done by other force users and not Kylo so it doesn't count.
Besides, you haven't answered my question: Do you think 10 Poes or 10 Reys can overpower Loki?
Originally posted by FrothByteWe have seen force users casually toss pods in combat so acting like the force is pressed with human level strength is simply absurd. I'm not ignoring history and canon to sell my point because cap's kick which can't send senate pods flying was used. I can give you a list of feats far greater than that.
I'm not talking about durability. I'm talking about Cap not being able to push Loki even a step back with a full powered kick. That's not durability, that's strength.Also, being able to block blows from someone implies that you are somewhere near that person's strength range... because it's completely stupid to think a 5 year old child can block a full strength strike from an adult heavyweight right?
As for the force moving heavier objects, it was done by other force users and not Kylo so it doesn't count.
Besides, you haven't answered my question: Do you think 10 Poes or 10 Reys can overpower Loki?
It counts that he stopped a force bolt which packs more of an impact from poe's gun than caps leg.
You're throwing random numbers out there and ignoring the force feats themselves. 🙂
Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Loki took fire arm rounds (multiple) to the face and body.A standard 762. round is comparable to a full grown man swinging a baseball bat at full force, this didn't even knock Loki's head back.
A 7.62 round is from a large rifle or automatic assault weapon like a 240 bravo or M60.
He was shot in the face with a handgun.
Originally posted by quanchi112
We have seen force users casually toss pods in combat so acting like the force is pressed with human level strength is simply absurd. I'm not ignoring history and canon to sell my point because cap's kick which can't send senate pods flying was used. I can give you a list of feats far greater than that.It counts that he stopped a force bolt which packs more of an impact from poe's gun than caps leg.
You're throwing random numbers out there and ignoring the force feats themselves. 🙂
So are you going to include every force feat out there even if they weren't performed by Kylo himself?
Because if that's how you want to play this then I'm including every Asgardian feat shown even if they weren't Loki's.
Originally posted by FrothByteI already argued due to the force bolt. Did you miss that ?
So are you going to include every force feat out there even if they weren't performed by Kylo himself?Because if that's how you want to play this then I'm including every Asgardian feat shown even if they weren't Loki's.