How old is the Earth?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I don't understand your point. He believes God is the intelligent designer, right? 😬

But the entire concept of intelligent design has nothing to do with the biblical God though. It leaves room for other possibilities.

in·tel·li·gent de·sign
noun

the theory that life, or the universe, cannot have arisen by chance and was designed and created by some intelligent entity.

Yes, and that doesn't leave room only for the biblical God. Intelligent design isn't the belief in a biblical God that specifically loves us and created us out of love and watches out for us and listens to our prayers and all that.

Your point being?

If you literally believe in the biblical God, you "100%" believe in intelligent design regardless of the fact that it's an umbrella term.

It's more or less the same concept as "all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares".

But the biblical God isn't intelligent design. That is the problem. It goes beyond that. The theory of intelligent design specifically only has to do with the fact this stuff didn't come about by chance.

Intelligent design doesn't get specific as to what is behind the universe. But belief in God has to be specific.

So? They're still completely compatible. All people who believe God created the universe believe that an intelligent being designed the universe.

You don't support intelligent design if you have a specific deity in mind with a whole backstory. So you can't really go "I believe in intelligent design, but specifically that God did it, the biblical one".

Yes. Yes, you absolutely can. You can say "I believe the universe was designed, and I believe YHWH did it."

No you really can't, as intelligent design isn't about specifics.

So please stop acting like this isn't about specific terms. Of course you can say God designed the universe. But the specific theory of intelligent design we are talking about isn't the same thing.

With that theory, it leaves open the chance even more then one entity could be behind creation as we know it. It's about not knowing what did it, just that something did it.

Or we can keep this really simple. If you believe the biblical God created everything you certainly believe an intelligent being designed the universe. But that isn't the same as intelligent design as we are speaking of it...which talks about merely the fact something was behind this thing we call creation. Something in which we don't know and can't explain. Something for which we have no idea as to motive or desire.

At least for me that is how I interpret intelligent design.

Intelligent design is not a separate stance in of itself.

All belief systems that believe in a creator deity adhere to the concept of intelligent design. Without exception.

Intelligent design doesn't imply anything about the creator in question, it applies to every single one of them.

But that is why they use it to deceive. The theory in itself has nothing to do with anything specific.

People attempt to use it to try to apply some "science". It's not intelligent design to me if you have a specific idea in mind. Because that transforms it from "something is behind this" to "God specifically is behind this and he talks to us through angels and has kids and shit".

What in the world are you talking about? It isn't specific because it's a concept that inherently exists in multiple religions, including Judaism and Christianity.

It has nothing to do with science, it has to do with logical reasoning. What you consider it is irrelevant because that's clearly not what Star considers it, and he's the one you're discussing. His stance is clearly that he is a Christian and believes in intelligent design, which isn't contradictory in the slightest.

I guess I'll bottom line it: it's not intelligent design to me if you give a name to what is behind everything.

You are also correct it has nothing to do with science, it's pseudoscience.

Intelligent design is a common belief among people who believe in theistic evolution. Instead of the literal six days of creation, they believe that God used evolution to expand His original creation over the course of billions of years.

Some christians also subscribe to a Gap Theory. They believe a gap exists between Genesis 1:1-Genesis 1:2. This 'Gap' is used to explain billions of years of evolution.

For the record, I subscribe to neither view.

The other problem is the proponents of ID go out of their way to avoid giving a name or personality to whatever is behind it. Yet they of course believe it is the biblical God, but they go out of their way to avoid ever saying this. Why? Because putting a name on it changes it and they know it.

Again, intelligent design doesn't really imply even that much, it only dictates that the complex world couldn't have been an accident.

@Surter: Except that's clearly not the case here, with Star openly standing as a Christian that believes in intelligent design. As most Christians do. 👆

There is actually more then one concept of ID, all of which on paper tend to avoid naming this force behind everything.

NewGuy I know very well what Star believes. Which is why I am pointing out the problems such belief could present.

Again, those are specific viewpoints people may or may not have on it. Intelligent Design itself implies no such rule. It's a very, very simple and basic concept. I believe you're overthinking what it means.

Originally posted by Surtur
The other problem is the proponents of ID go out of their way to avoid giving a name or personality to whatever is behind it. Yet they of course believe it is the biblical God, but they go out of their way to avoid ever saying this. Why? Because putting a name on it changes it and they know it.

Intelligent design could mean God or it could mean aliens seeded the Earth with life. It's too abstract. ID was really invented by some Christians that had no counter for evolution and the origin of life.

As a Christian, you must believe in the Genesis account. There is no room for ID or the common thought of evolution taught in schools today.