Star Wars TFA vs ANH

Started by queeq14 pages

Well, for one, Hidden Fortress has a lot of (classic, yes, true) elements that ANH used.

It starts with two characters from the bottom of society (farmers vs. droids) who witness a battle and keep commenting on what's going on after this.

There's a famous General that needs to rescue a Princess to return her to her people. The farmers are tricked into helping them and they are promised a big reward. The band of four gets another member in the form of a freed slave (Chewbacca anyone).

Now, Lucas chucked in the other basic hero's journey elements (like the mentor (OB1 - a famous General) the pirate (Han Solo). But yeah it\'s not direct copy, but it's very weird to see this movie, knowing ANH so well.

But Kurosawa was inspired by Westerns himself and made the movie Yojimbo like a Western (although it was set in feudal Japan). This movie was then remade AS a Western by an Italian film maker😖 Sergio Leone. It's called: A Fistful of Dollars with an actor called Clint Eastwood...

So filmmaker's borrow a lot from other films. And TFA just borrowed from it's own franchise. So I wouldn't be too worked up by that.

^ Think I need to watch Hidden Fortress now.

Not worked up by it. Star Wars has every right to copy Star Wars. It's just not what I wanted from a New film in the franchise.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh geez. Could you suck up to Abrams and hate on Lucas anymore?

Lucas did not rip off or rehash any 1 thing in particular. Star Wars borrowed elements from Flash Gordon, Wizard of Oz, Westerns and WW2 dramas and by doing so created something very new.

That's called being Creative, a quality Abrams severely lacks in.

And btw if you are going to rehash a story at least don't do it from the 1st film in the same damn franchise (which didn't even make sense half the time being in a sequel format). Rehashing an old story from say a Flash Gordon episode as a Star Wars episode would have been more interesting and something most people wouldn't even notice or care about if it was pointed out.

But hey let's not expect Abrams to even rehash with a little creativity.

No, he is calling you out for your blatant hypocrisy.

I posted the link and the website and we have queeq confirm he stole a whole lot. Your ignorance on the matter doesn't make it any less true. People borrow all the damn time so your cry for originality is truly ironic here. You didn't like the film which is fine but the movie you praise isn't original either so stop with the self righteousness.

The movie is also a huge success so stew on your own time as the majority of the planet disagrees.

Well, stole, stole... Lucas was inspired by several other films. I never heard anyone call Leone a thief when he made A Fistful of Dollars.

I can't really say Abrams "stole" from a movie from the same franchise.

Just drop the heavy accusations. It's only a movie.

Originally posted by queeq
Well, stole, stole... Lucas was inspired by several other films.

Yes several other films.

And funny, because I don't recall using the word "stole." Some of you are getting a bit too defensive over criticisms towards this movie and it's director.

Originally posted by queeq
Just drop the heavy accusations. It's only a movie.

Accusations? Lol I'm not taking him to court.

Just pointing out some clear points, that Abrams imagination was pretty limited for this film, so he heavily "borrowed" from ANH. And the way he did it didn't even make complete sense. That's my criticism.

But if people want to keep defending that criticism, and on top start pretending Lucas also had limited imagination, then I'll keep the conversation going.

well, I don't defend it (even though I'm not in court), it just doesn't bother me enough to dislike it.

And by no means at all would I ever say Lucas has limited imagination. It's huge. He just hasn't shown with the PT that he wasn't good (anymore?) into turning that imagination into a coherent, well crafted and invested story.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes several other films.

And funny, because I don't recall using the word "stole." Some of you are getting a bit too defensive over criticisms towards this movie and it's director.

Accusations? Lol I'm not taking him to court.

Just pointing out some clear points, that Abrams imagination was pretty limited for this film, so he heavily "borrowed" from ANH. And the way he did it didn't even make complete sense. That's my criticism.

But if people want to keep defending that criticism, and on top start pretending Lucas also had limited imagination, then I'll keep the conversation going.

Both stole so quit acting like ANH was completely original. It wasn't. You can't stand TFA. That's all.

Abrams addresses the Darth Thors of the world.

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-force-awakens-jj-abrams-new-hope-rip-off/

Hmm, it strikes me as odd that whenever something wildly popular and applauded criticism is so often met with hostility, it's almost as if they forget ad populum is still a fallacious argument. Not leveling that accusation at anyone in particular.

And I think that even if they didn't negatively effect you're experience, it's still productive and acknowledge and engage with the films faults.

On topic, and I say it again, I don't think the problem with TFA was it's lack of originality, it's more than possible, even within the scope of the same franchise, to take a concept and repurpose it into something just as creatively compelling, ANH is proof of that.

And I also think that TFA for the most part is largely successful in appropriating ANH into the movie. For example the parallels between Rey's beginnings and Luke's beginnings are there, but Rey's origins are distinct enough (e.g. Rey as a lone wolf/survivor, eagerness rather than reluctance to join the fight, an independent rather than aided escape) to stand on their own two feet. Han Solo as a Ben Kenobi, culminating in his ultimate sacrifice, also has it's own distinct identity, and frankly is a rehash of every other Hero's Journey ever. And Kylo Ren as a reinventing of Darth Vader, but with far greater emphasis put on conflict, and the brand new idea of a developing villain not yet in their prime, makes him distinct and therefore compelling in his own right as well.

The issue that comes with re-purposing existing stuff, making a "retro" movie, is when what you end up with is almost exactly the same, just not as as interesting and compelling as before.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Starkiller Base is a poorly conceived and poorly executed concept. It is a carbon copy of the Death Star, it has no distinct or unique characteristics from a storytelling perspective, and no having a bigger laser does not count. And unlike the Death Star it is next to derivative to the overreaching plot being largely shoe-horned into the story, and is invested with very little emotional significance.

Another example is the Rebels vs Empire dichotomy, which here is rebranded as the Resistance vs First Order. And again, it is a carbon copy with zero distinctive features bar being flashier and more bad@ss (notice the trend), and with next to no political exposition J.J. never gives the concept the opportunity to define itself, and is like Starkiller Base, invested with very little emotional significance.

The result is that these aspects of the film feel hollow, and that negatively effected my experience, though I still enjoyed the movie.

Good points.